Ep. 138 - Interview with Madison Errichiello: Love is Blind, Loss, and Healing through Trauma
Madison Errichiello steps out of the "Love is Blind" pods and into a raw, illuminating conversation about healing from trauma and finding strength in vulnerability. Known for her openness about mental health on the show, Madison joins us to reveal the deeper layers behind what viewers saw – and how reality TV editing shaped public perception of her journey.
"I don't wear this trauma as a coat," Madison explains, addressing misconceptions about her willingness to discuss her difficult past. Growing up between two drastically different households, Madison developed resilience alongside complex relationship patterns. She candidly explores how these experiences shaped her attachment style and the fear of being "too much" for partners.
The conversation moves beyond labels as Madison unpacks what it means to be "avoidant" in relationships while actively working toward security. Through her experiences with sudden loss and grief, Madison offers powerful insights into why certain boundaries – like asking loved ones to text when they arrive safely – stem from a place of care rather than control.
Perhaps most striking is Madison's approach to newfound fame and criticism. Rather than obsessively consuming public opinion, she's established healthy boundaries to protect her mental health. This self-assurance challenges the narrative that confident women need "humbling" and offers a masterclass in distinguishing between others' projections and personal truth.
Whether you're healing from relational trauma, navigating attachment issues, or simply curious about the real person beyond reality TV editing, this conversation offers compassionate wisdom about holding life with "a looser grip" and finding peace through self-acceptance.
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Jacqueline Trumbull (00:35.369)
Hey guys, we have a very special guest today. We have gone back to my reality TV roots, although not the bachelor. This time we have gone over to Love is Blind, our first ever Love is Blind guest. is Madison Aracello. We are so excited to have you here. You were kind of a spokesperson for mental health on the show. We're really intrigued to have you after the conversations about mental health and particularly attachment style.
madserr (00:50.403)
it's
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:04.699)
that you had on the show. So really curious to kind of talk to you about your background and kind of what you've learned along the way.
madserr (01:12.823)
Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:15.903)
My first question is, I think I've seen you make a joke about like trauma dumping. Like, oh, it's just trauma dumping. What do you feel? Is that something that people post show have made you feel bad about or like, yes, okay.
madserr (01:21.802)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (01:31.799)
Yeah, definitely. I think it's really interesting because, you know, going on a TV show, intending to get married, you have to talk about things that, you know, are in your past. You have to talk about your family. You have to talk about those things before you get engaged. At least I would think so. And so for people like me who do have kind of a difficult past and do have a long history of, you know, different family dynamics and
and things like that, it can come off as trauma dumping and especially the way that they edit it, it's very trauma heavy. They kind of made that my story. Although when you do actually get to know me, that's not how I handle things. That's not who I am. I don't wear this trauma as a coat. So yeah, I think a lot of people are like, she trauma dumped and then left the pod single, but it is what it is.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (02:27.928)
I didn't know that that's what they said. That's terrible. That's terrible thing to say.
madserr (02:30.243)
yeah. I mean, there's lots of noise. There's lots of things being said about it. But at the end of the day, like that's my story, you know, and I think it's really important to share.
Jacqueline Trumbull (02:42.941)
Yeah, I mean, it's an interesting concept telling somebody if they're trauma dumping when it's like exactly as you said, you're there to have a very serious relationship that you have to form in two weeks. Less. Yeah. And it's like, what information about me might be relevant? Well, maybe it's how I see the world and how I show up in the world and what has, you know, crafted that and shaped that.
madserr (02:51.449)
Mm-hmm.
less. Yep.
madserr (03:04.838)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqueline Trumbull (03:09.682)
seems pretty relevant, but yet there's this term. I was having a conversation with a follower about this where she's just like, I hate this term. It's like, it makes it seem like a bad thing to talk about your traumas, but like, why keep that a secret, right? Or why just like give people little spoonfuls? I mean, I can kind of see the dialectic of it of like first date, you know, revealing your entire life story, but on the other hand, you don't have much time on that show.
madserr (03:39.333)
Yeah, I mean, it's literally you have a week, a week's time to get to know someone and then get engaged to them. So this isn't typical dating, right? Like if I'm going on a first date with someone in the real world, you know, I might jump into some like, like I lost my brother or things like that. But like, I'm not going into depth about any of my family dynamics or, know, whatever. But like, when you have the intention to get married within a week's time, you have to talk about that stuff.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (03:52.664)
you
madserr (04:08.069)
And I think what I found is the people who haven't necessarily experienced trauma in that way, they are the ones who are talking about it being trauma dumping. They just don't understand. And then the people who have experienced that trauma are like, my gosh, I see myself in you. Thank you so much. you know, bringing awareness to this on a reality television platform has been really helpful to a lot of people as well. So there's definitely two spectrums.
Jacqueline Trumbull (04:35.839)
Well, it's kind of funny because the Bachelor literally demands it. I mean, we're known for our dates being like, quote unquote, trauma dump dates. So yeah, so that's just an aside.
madserr (04:42.775)
Mm-hmm. That's so funny.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (04:47.896)
What about that dating context of love is blind brought up what kind of trauma? when I imagine like, you know, with dating and getting in relationships and starting to connect to people, a lot of our, you know, our past and our like mental health comes up and gets triggered and gets, you know, challenged or we have to work through it. What came up in that setting for you?
madserr (05:13.563)
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a point in the show where I say, hey, like if I'm too much for you, let me know. Like if you want to find someone who's experienced less in life or who's gone through less in life, let me know. And I think that was kind of a hard place for me to exist because I have experienced that in past relationships of just feeling like I'm too much or feeling like my past is too much or.
You know, and I've done a lot of work to kind of heal those childhood wounds and start moving forward and being more secure in my relationships. And I think that's why I can be so open about it. But in the case of like Alex, instead of him seeing, she's being really open, she's being really vulnerable. And she's sharing this information with me because she's worked through this clearly. It's, well, that scares me. Like that really terrifies me.
So I think that was kind of my biggest hurdle of, you know, feeling like I was too much. And then when I was met with that uncertainty, it pushed me to be like, well, no, like I promise I'm worth it. I promise like, don't leave. Like I promise I'll show you. So I think that that was really hard to watch back for sure.
Jacqueline Trumbull (06:31.379)
Yeah, I noticed that dynamic. I mean, I didn't find you hard to watch, but I did notice that dance that you were in of kind of wait, now I have to reverse a little bit and try to comfort you. And I'm not terrifying. I'm not somebody that you have to be afraid to be with, that you can't handle. that was a little bit upsetting.
madserr (06:43.344)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (06:48.168)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (06:59.184)
Yeah, what?
Jacqueline Trumbull (07:02.079)
Would you mind telling us a little bit about your upbringing?
madserr (07:06.545)
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because I think people who, you know, watch the show, it's funny how their view on life shapes the way that they interpret things, right? So a lot of people were like, how can you say that your parents were drug addicts, but they were also Christians? Like, that doesn't make sense. you know, like just things like that, which two things can exist at once. But how
Jacqueline Trumbull (07:34.355)
Not on social media, Madison, I'm sorry.
madserr (07:36.111)
No, know nuance nowhere to be found. but I kind of, you know, portion my life out in like three different sectors, right? So I was born in Indiana, but my mom quickly moved back to Wisconsin to be with her family. And that's where she met my stepdad when I was two. So I grew up with my mom and my stepdad, who were drug addicts. And you know, when you're a kid, you don't know those types of things. You think that that's just everyone's life.
So it's not until later that you start to be like, that was messed up. That's not normal. And yeah, so then my dad got custody of me and he lived in Indiana. So he got custody of me when I was nine, which tells you how bad things were because how often does a dad get custody in a different state where the mom doesn't have necessarily like visitation rights. I still visited her, but it was not.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (08:14.294)
Thank
madserr (08:35.088)
necessary, legally. And so, yeah, moving from that drug addict kind of like free rein, like I would wake up in the morning, get myself to school, like walk myself to school, like in elementary school. Just very self-sufficient, took care of my brother. And then moving into a household with my dad when I was nine.
Jacqueline Trumbull (08:36.36)
Yeah.
madserr (09:00.808)
And he was married to my stepmom and they were very devout Christians, very conservative. Like I had to ask to eat things. I had to ask to go play with my friends. I had to ask to do all of these things and I had to start following these new rules. you know, so they both had their own pros and cons, I guess. Not necessarily pros, but cons. They both had their own different hardships.
So I feel like I've lived like two different lives. And then, you know, finally, like my adult life is me in Minnesota. But yeah, I think that hopefully kind of explains it a little bit.
Jacqueline Trumbull (09:29.055)
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (09:36.984)
Thank
With such different households, what tends to come up for you in relationships? My question is from when you're saying too much, that can mean so many different things. What for you felt like, uh-oh, this definitely came up in relationships and it was hard for people?
Jacqueline Trumbull (09:50.665)
Bye.
madserr (09:59.787)
I mean, I think the aspect of too much is just wanting too much or requesting too much from people, like requesting too much loyalty or requesting too much when it comes to trust or things like that. And I think also growing up having to be very like acclimate to different, you know, environments so quickly.
made me sort of this people pleaser as this sort of like survival, like protection technique. And so that turned me into this like, well, it's whatever you want, whatever you're comfortable with and I'll just go with the flow. But that made me like so miserable to the point where it caused resentment, you know, in my relationships too on my side and being able to voice that has been a challenge, but you know.
I figured it out along the way. But yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (10:59.871)
I'm like, my mind is going in a couple of different directions. I kind of want to return to your childhood in a second, but I also, think the big theme of today is going to be talking about relationships and how this has influenced you. One thing we see when people have a chaotic childhood is that, especially if there are attachment wounds, is that they will reenact the attachment wound and try to win this time. So they'll find somebody who is similar to their
madserr (11:02.987)
Yeah.
madserr (11:13.118)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqueline Trumbull (11:30.217)
father or mother or right and then but try to beat the dynamic like now if I can get you to love me then I'll then I'll win and I can heal this wound and that often is a losing proposition and so they just lose and lose and lose and lose and it gets worse and worse and worse the other thing that I feel like I see from people who maybe didn't feel like they had unconditional love growing up is a desire for unconditional love in a romantic partner
madserr (11:41.515)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqueline Trumbull (11:57.759)
I mean we all like want that right, but in a way Where they are asking maybe too much of their partner because they're asking their partner to fulfill What they should have gotten from their parents? So you said like you're asking for too much and on one hand It's like are you asking for too much because you're looking for that relationship you never got or are you asking for too much for the people that
you're with because those people are just fundamentally not going to give you very much. Do you have any idea if you're even in either of those buckets or some third option, if that made any sense?
madserr (12:26.634)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (12:31.989)
Yeah, I think it's definitely both. It's a both and situation. You know, I've been in relationships. Yeah, I've been in relationships where it's like, me asking too much is me asking you to be faithful to me and stop cheating on me. Or stop, you know, stop liking, stop liking, you know, bikini pictures on Instagram or unfollow your ex or just things like that.
Jacqueline Trumbull (12:37.107)
less likely in situations.
Jacqueline Trumbull (12:47.93)
That is a lot to ask, yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (12:54.301)
Thank
madserr (12:58.601)
asking too much, but I think sometimes there are those unspoken requests or times where I have in the past wished that someone could read my mind because I didn't know how to say it or I didn't know how like what even to communicate. just wish that they would have met me there without even communicating that I needed that. So I think it's definitely both ends of the spectrum, right? Like I wasn't perfect in any of my relationships and
I think it's definitely evident to me looking in the past that I have required a lot from the people that I've been in relationships with because I was looking for that fulfillment that now I have found in self-love. Yay! Yes, yeah. But yeah, I can definitely see how I've done that in the past.
Jacqueline Trumbull (13:47.347)
That's the answer.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (13:55.16)
Can you give an example of something that you needed that you wished a partner or someone, you know, picked up on without you saying it or?
madserr (14:07.086)
Yeah, it's hard. I haven't dated and I mean been in a relationship in like three years almost now so it's kind of hard to remember any specifics, but I just think like You know I've been told in the past like I just can't win with you like if I do this then I can't win and if I do that then I can't win and That's
Fair, like that's valid because I think with myself, like I couldn't feel like I could win, like no matter which way it went, like I wasn't good at compromising. Or, you know, I just can get very strict with like what I need and, and how I need things to be. I mean, in the past, I was, or what I expected from people without communicating. But yeah, I don't think I can think of any like specific
examples.
Jacqueline Trumbull (15:03.933)
Yeah. Can you talk at all about how loss has played into this? You were talking, I mean, I was really struck by the amount of loss you've experienced in your life.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (15:04.872)
you
madserr (15:15.854)
Mm hmm. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's the loss of like physical loss, like death, I've lost my stepdad to a drug overdose, and I lost my brother in a car crash very suddenly. So all of the loss of experience has been very sudden. Like, you know, you don't get time to say your goodbyes or make peace with it. So I think that definitely plays into my relationships as sort of like an anxiety.
of, you know, there was there was one guy I was talking to for a little bit and one of my rules and friendships and relationships and I know it doesn't make sense to everyone but as long as you can respect it for me like we're gonna be okay is just let me know when you get home. Like I just need that. I need you to let me know when you get home safely. and if I don't have your location I just need to know and he this guy just could not do that and there was one night he was like working security and it was
St. Patrick's Day and you know, so there's a lot of drunk drivers out there. He was supposed to come over to my apartment after I didn't hear from him until 11 the next morning. I was up all night just picturing him dead in a ditch. And I think some people who have never experienced that kind of like sudden loss can see that as like controlling, right? Like, oh, like, why does it matter? Why do I need to text you? But with someone who has experienced that trauma, like it's just a peace of mind. Like it's not.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (16:26.808)
Thank
madserr (16:43.285)
at all meant to be controlling. It's just like, no, like I've experienced very sudden loss my life and I just, that's just what I need. Like, I just need to know that you're safe. So I think that is sometimes hard for people to understand because it's not often that people have experienced things like that. But then, you know, it's, it's the loss of like a parent who does have drug addiction and having to like mourn what that person should have been in your life.
like my mother, like, was not a mother to me. so it's, it's losing out on, on having someone that you can go to, or you can trust an adult person in your life. and I think that, you know, can tend to make it difficult to trust people in real time, and, form like really trusting relationships with friends or, you know, other family members or things like that.
But at the end of the day, that's my story and I don't allow myself to be a victim to my circumstances. So those are things that I genuinely have truly worked on in life. I'm just very open about it.
Jacqueline Trumbull (18:00.169)
Well, we love that. sorry, I be.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (18:00.568)
No, I'm just, you know, sad for you. mean, it just, it's that kind of trauma and that kind of loss, it exposes you to something that people take for granted, which is like, you just say, yeah, that person's fine. If I don't hear from them, they're probably still alive. Like you don't even know that you have that belief or just like, yeah, someone's gonna love me and people are trustworthy. Like all these things that people take for granted and don't realize how painful it is when they...
madserr (18:14.426)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (18:19.597)
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (18:30.572)
don't have that security. So, I mean, I just, yeah, that was, that was mostly what I wanted to say. It's just.
madserr (18:32.207)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (18:35.519)
No, mean, it struck me too because like, so I work in a VA right now, so it's like heavily PTSD. And what you see with trauma survivors is, and I'm not a trauma survivor, right? So like, I can tell that I have this protective coding, which is exactly as Kipi was describing. It's like, I assume the best case scenario or just sort of the mediums case scenario, but I'm never really assuming the worst case scenario. And
There's this sense, this isn't a quote for me, it's from a different book on trauma, but that we're like divinely protected. So even if like I'm not religious, but I still, there's this sense of like, yeah, like I'm protected, like everything's gonna be okay. I'm not one of those people that these things happens to. And then one of these things happens to you and you become that person. And then there's a kind of reverberation of like, this isn't the world I was living in yesterday.
Did you ever feel like you had that kind of protective coating? Because you were living such an abnormal life from so early on. And just so you know also, the three of us in this room have someone in our family who abdicated their mothering duties to drug addiction or alcohol addiction. Not my mom, it my sister, but Hibby's mom and your mom. And so there is this interesting thread among the three of us today.
madserr (19:39.034)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (19:47.92)
you
madserr (19:56.186)
Well, we're all connected somehow. We're never truly alone. Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (19:58.56)
Cheers!
Dr. Kibby McMahon (19:59.48)
We all get it. We don't take anything for granted.
madserr (20:03.054)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, no, I don't think that I have ever truly felt like I've had that protective coding. Like, I think that protective coding is me and my own self. Like, it's me going inwards. me, you know, like learning about disassociation and how that's developed as a child was crazy to me because as a child, I didn't
I don't remember thinking, this is so bad. But, you know, looking back, I'm like, I created these patterns and these behaviors of self-protection and, you know, like extreme sort of independence that kind of gets on people's nerves in my life. Like they want me to depend on them. And then I'm like, no, no, no, it's good. It's fine. because yeah, that's, that's the only thing I've known. Like the only person that has ever truly protected me is myself.
So I don't know what it's like to have that worldview of like, things will work out. It's like, I don't know what that's like.
Jacqueline Trumbull (21:10.109)
Yeah. KB, sorry.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (21:13.112)
I mean, this might be getting into the treatment and recovery part, but how did you survive all of that? did you, you you're talking about that now you're able to reflect and have self-love, but what was that like in those early days of trying to cope with all that? I mean, self-reliance, but what else did you do? What else helped you get through that?
madserr (21:41.085)
Yeah, my therapist reminds me all the time of like, just ever since I was a kid, I've just had this weird resilience. Like, I just, you know, don't allow things to truly, truly break me. And I think it's, you know, it is that like self-reliance. Like at the end of the day, I always know that I'll have myself and that's good enough. And, you know, I'll always be okay, like no matter what happens. But yeah, I think it's just...
Dr. Kibby McMahon (21:51.256)
Thank you.
madserr (22:10.47)
I've always had just such a resilient sort of like, you know, mindset, I guess. And that's really the only thing that I can attribute it to.
Jacqueline Trumbull (22:27.003)
One of the things you talked about that scared Alex was avoidant attachment. You know my thoughts on this because you listened to the episode, but I was wondering if you could describe what you meant by that because I feel like as soon as you said that, everybody else sort of superimposed what they meant by that on top of you.
madserr (22:30.194)
Yeah.
madserr (22:46.99)
Yeah, no, I mean, I think you made a really great point. Like if I wouldn't have identified that way, I wonder if people would have given me a little bit more grace because it was a lot of like projection in my comments, right? It was, well I dated this person who was avoided and they ruined my life. like, I did it. It's just like, it's again, it's like they're experiencing my story from their point of view, their worldview, right? So I get it. It's a lot, but I get it.
but I think what was really missed was he identified as an anxious, right? Do I think he's an anxious? No, because he didn't act that way. if anything, I think he displayed more avoided behaviors than I did. And I think people just hear, they hear it and then they take it as truth. Right. But I think what I saw on the TV and what I experienced for myself was me continuing to be like, Hey,
I'm gonna show up in this relationship securely. I'm gonna be vulnerable with you. That's not what an avoidant does. Like, if I'm scared, I'm not gonna share this information with you. I'm not gonna give you my bear. I'm not gonna, you know, like I was continuing to show up for him and show up for him. And it was like, no matter what I did, he just wanted to push away and he wanted to run. Like at the end of the day, that was just gonna be, you know, it just wasn't gonna work.
Jacqueline Trumbull (23:48.692)
Bye.
madserr (24:16.2)
So yeah, I think it is interesting how what I showed versus what I said, what I said was taken more heavily than my actual actions, if that makes sense.
Jacqueline Trumbull (24:31.229)
Yeah. How do you actually feel about your attachment style?
madserr (24:40.34)
I mean, it's funny, right? Because you can feel super healed. And then the minute you start getting into like a relationship or a situationship with someone, it's like, oh, now I'm suddenly having to like face these fears again. yeah, even recently I was, you know, talking to this girl and I was like, oh, wow, like I really like her. But then I was like, oh, but you know, this and then this and this and it's like, okay, well, I don't have to think so future-minded. I can let it be what it is.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (24:42.936)
Thank
Jacqueline Trumbull (24:53.993)
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (24:58.648)
Thank
madserr (25:10.565)
and let it kind of run its course as it may. But I do think what has helped me so much in my avoidant tendencies or my attachment style is the idea that I will always have myself, right? So no matter if I come to you I'm really vulnerable about how I feel, and if you receive it well, great. If you don't,
that's okay because I was still vulnerable. I was okay enough to tell you how I feel. And if you can't reciprocate that energy, then like, you're probably not my person and that's good. That's like, you know, how relationships are like, if, if you can't receive this well, then maybe we should, this doesn't work out. But I think just knowing that it's not about feeling safe with that person. It's about feeling safe with yourself and safe enough that
Dr. Kibby McMahon (25:52.664)
.
madserr (26:07.208)
no matter if I'm vulnerable, I'll always be okay because I have me. Does that make sense?
Jacqueline Trumbull (26:13.534)
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (26:13.88)
Yeah, but that sounds really healthy. That doesn't sound avoidant at all. But I agree that avoidant attachment gets such a bad rap. Like, I think that it's toxic and narcissistic, it just, I mean, I think Jacqueline and I have both talked about our avoidant attachment styles, but mostly because we've, you know, when you experience relational trauma or someone not being available.
madserr (26:17.641)
Well yeah!
madserr (26:22.419)
Yes.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (26:39.128)
it's scary to have to then trust somebody, right? Cause you don't know that's gonna happen. So yeah, you tend to be a little bit more like, I guess it's all insecurity, anxious or avoidant, but it's just like, where do you feel more safe in yourself or trying to cling to a person? And actually you find that people do both. It's not like avoidant means that they just, they're fuck boys or whatever, right? It's just, I don't know, now I'm going on a rant, but.
madserr (26:42.121)
Yes, yeah.
madserr (26:50.581)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (26:55.559)
Yes, yeah.
madserr (27:02.953)
Right. No, I mean, that makes sense. I think it like I have obviously done work. Like you're literally propped up on the book attached right now. But
Jacqueline Trumbull (27:14.079)
You
Dr. Kibby McMahon (27:14.676)
yeah, that book, it does also give a bad rap to avoidant attachment. They're like, if you're avoidant, just stop being avoidant. Come on, man.
madserr (27:21.783)
No, I literally was like, this is kind of unhelpful, but thank you. Like it's very drawn to it's very like, for the anxious, I think. But the world is for the anxious. But yeah, I think like, I have done so much work in just getting to a place where I'm like, I'm secured myself and I'm secured my relationships. That doesn't always happen. But the funny thing is,
Jacqueline Trumbull (27:27.655)
You
Dr. Kibby McMahon (27:32.418)
Yeah, yeah, the world, yeah.
madserr (27:48.168)
is I have been very anxious in relationships in the past. Like, I'm not always an avoidant. And I think different people can bring out different aspects of you, which is also key I got from the show is like, you're two different people. Well, first of all, it's editing. But also, that's just humans being humans, right? We all have different relationships with each other. But yeah, I have, I've understood, like I've been in the mind of an anxious before. I think, you know, you know that quote on TikTok where it's like, and who set that system up?
That's how I feel where it's like I've been so like betrayed, specifically by men in the past that it's almost gone from like anxious to avoidant. Like I've over-corrected to now I'm gonna avoid it and now I don't want anything to do with you and like your energy.
Jacqueline Trumbull (28:38.311)
Mm-hmm is it different with women?
Dr. Kibby McMahon (28:38.808)
Makes sense.
madserr (28:41.943)
I would say yes, I tend to be more avoidant with women. Yeah, but I think that's because it's a lot more emotional. Like you get deeper emotionally quicker. With men, it's like they're okay, just like being really surface level for a really long time. And sometimes I can...
Jacqueline Trumbull (28:50.945)
interesting.
madserr (29:10.423)
be okay existing on surface level for a really long time. And so, yeah, with women, I think I do tend to be a little bit more avoidant because with men it's just easier. I'm not scared of hurting them, but with women, you know, it's just so much more intense. Like I remember I went on a date with this girl, like I went on maybe two dates with her.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (29:26.104)
Thank
Dr. Kibby McMahon (29:31.032)
Mm.
madserr (29:39.609)
Um, and then I hadn't, I didn't text her back like for like four days. And by the time I texted her back, she was like, honestly, F you. don't know if we can cuss on here, but she was like, honestly, F you. And I was like, what? Why? And she was like, I didn't hear from you for four days. So it's just things like that where I'm like, I tend to be more avoidant because it's so much more intense. And then, you know, with men, can be casual for a longer time.
Jacqueline Trumbull (30:08.745)
Can I ask you what intensity brings up for you? What these emotional conversations feel like for you that makes you kind of want to back away?
madserr (30:16.204)
I don't think it's necessarily the emotional conversations. I'm okay having intense conversations. I think it's the feelings that come with it, right? Like it's the feeling connected to someone when you share those emotions with someone. That kind of makes me take a step back. And I think in some ways it is healthy, right? Like you wanna be safe about who you're sharing information with or who you're connecting with emotionally. But.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (30:17.048)
Thank
madserr (30:44.171)
Yeah, I think it's more so just like a scary thing to get vulnerable with a new person that you're romantically interested in. And that kind of makes me take a step back sometimes.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (31:00.248)
What was that like in Love is Blind? Like I can imagine that there's some aspects of not seeing them that could feel safer, but like it looked like, at least from editing, that you were sitting there like, I always thought about it as like a confessional. You're sitting there really talking very deeply quickly. Did things feel like safer or scarier there in that regard?
madserr (31:17.88)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (31:25.738)
It felt safer because, you know, you don't have that physical, like, eye contact. Where should I look? What should I do? How do I look? Like, I mean, you do in a little bit, a little bit, but just because you're on camera. But you forget that the cameras are there. And so I think it kind of, it's almost like, you know how people feel safer being
more hateful online because they're behind a screen. It's almost that way where you just you feel safer because it's almost like that person isn't real. In a weird way, you're like they're real, but like I can't see them. So I feel okay enough to be more vulnerable.
Jacqueline Trumbull (31:56.351)
Okay.
madserr (32:08.696)
Weird experience.
Jacqueline Trumbull (32:12.625)
I always find it fascinating when we talk about how my best friend is bi and she'll talk about, sort of similarly, how women can be a little intense or just more emotionally connected and how that can kind of... And it's just so funny when we think about how men are usually the ones who handle women in that place and how bad men can be at that. It's kind of like, did we get designed this way where men are the ones that have to...
madserr (32:41.654)
Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (32:42.279)
up like women's like emotional depth. But that was just an aside.
madserr (32:48.097)
I don't know, I stopped expecting anything from men a long time ago.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (32:53.688)
better place to be.
madserr (32:55.309)
Honestly, I have a lot more peace in my life. I sleep peacefully these days.
Jacqueline Trumbull (33:00.415)
I was earlier when you talking about going from a highly unstructured environment to a highly structured environment. One of the thoughts I have is like, sometimes kids who grow up without structure really gravitate towards structure and need it and love it. But it also seems like for you it was overcorrected. And now I know you're an artist, which is not structured. What kind of role does art play for you?
madserr (33:24.61)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (33:30.21)
Yeah, mean, art has been, and especially with the internet, I don't think I was ready for people to be so like, I need to see this from you and I need to see that from you and you talked about this, so now you owe me that. I decided before the show came out that I didn't want to use Lovis Vine to promote my art, because I had recently kind of, the past couple of years have been really difficult for me mentally.
Jacqueline Trumbull (33:52.244)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (33:59.533)
I finally have gotten to a place where I don't feel like I'm just surviving. For a long time, I felt like I was just surviving. And I think because of that, that really impacted my ability to feel creative. And it just felt like everything I created was just not me. Like I didn't identify with it. And I was trying to kind of get back to my roots of being more playful with my art and just putting things out without the intention of selling it.
and just having fun with it. And so that got picked up on the internet and people were like, you're not an artist. Like you won't show us your art. So that's been really interesting to watch take place. But yeah, I think I like art because it doesn't force me to be structured. But I think there's that part of me where it's like I do need structure in my life.
Jacqueline Trumbull (34:34.131)
Yes.
madserr (34:55.023)
Although I do resist it. Like I don't like feeling like I have to do this at a certain time and do that. Like routines, I know I thrive in them, but I also really despise them at the same time. I just said a lot in one setting, but yeah, I hope that answers your question. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Like I am like your type B friend, like to the max.
Jacqueline Trumbull (35:08.285)
Yeah. I relate.
Not unstructured. Perfect.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (35:16.536)
You
madserr (35:22.736)
But it's like, need my space to be clean. I need it to be like, you know, whatever, but it's not organized. Like you go in my drawers and it's just like, you know, everything has its place, but it's all chaotic in its place, if that makes sense. Exactly, yes.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (35:31.768)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (35:37.592)
It's chaos to you, it's orderly to you.
Jacqueline Trumbull (35:38.684)
I'm sorry.
Jacqueline Trumbull (35:44.991)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (35:46.04)
You mentioned a couple of times people writing all sorts of comments and what was your, in terms of mental health, what was your experience going into the show and then coming out? I just know from Jacqueline's experience, which, you know, she let her tell you, but it can be rough out there. So how do you, what was that like for you?
madserr (36:07.045)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (36:11.147)
Yeah, so I found an incredible therapist, like last September or October, I don't remember exactly. But I just started having these like, insane anxieties over what will people think? And I don't even know what my storyline is. I know for the bachelor, bachelorette, your editing time is like,
a lot shorter than Love is Blind. So we have a year to sit on this. And, you know, over that course of the year, so much happens in between and you forget like small details and stuff. So yeah, I found my therapist and was just like, I really want to make sure that I'm in a good headspace when this show comes out so that neither positive like praise or hate comments will shake me.
Like I don't want to get so swept up in like the positive part of things because the internet is so fickle and they can turn at you at any moment that I put my identity in the positive things and I don't want to put my identity in the negative things. Like I want to be very secure in myself. So my therapist and I did a lot of that work previous to the show coming out. And then afterwards we have also
done a lot of work, but I felt like I was in a really good headspace. So the first couple of days shook me. Like I was like, I don't know how to feel. I'm getting so much on both ends. Like I was a very polarizing person. So it was just very loud, like, you know, on both ends of the spectrum. And I think for the first two days, I felt really overwhelmed. And then the third day, was like, I've decided I don't care. And I'm just going to have fun with it.
And, know, so I just like reply to some hate comments being funny or like whatever. I would like lean into the joke or I would joke about myself or cause it's just really not that serious. So I do feel like I've handled it well. I also got on Zoloft, which has been incredibly helpful. I was on Lexapro before, but I didn't really think it helped. so finding the right meds is key. I'm like, this is what normal people feel like crazy.
Jacqueline Trumbull (38:33.961)
Well, you just named our two antidepressants, so that's very exciting for us.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (38:36.184)
Yeah. He's all up in.
madserr (38:36.542)
Incredible, incredible. Another invisible string.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (38:42.016)
Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (38:45.671)
Yeah, I I found it very difficult coming off of the show. the... I was like, people hated me on Reddit for whatever reason. Like had it pretty good at it. It was just...
Dr. Kibby McMahon (38:52.152)
Easy.
madserr (38:56.833)
yeah, people just hate on Reddit.
Jacqueline Trumbull (38:59.359)
My mom's best piece of advice was like, can you just find it fascinating? Like you're getting such a unique view into like human behavior and it is kind of fascinating. They extremely selective memory. can develop an entire persona for you based off of like a misunderstanding or literally a memory error. That happened to me a lot. And then just an insistence on hating. then...
madserr (39:08.456)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
madserr (39:19.87)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (39:24.285)
Yes.
Jacqueline Trumbull (39:25.348)
and just willfully like misinterpreting people is amazing.
madserr (39:30.664)
Yeah, mean, the being misunderstood was like such a core wound for me. And that was like my biggest fear. And so that's something I've had to face head on with reality TV. It's just like, yeah, you just have to let people misunderstand you and you don't have to correct everyone because even if you do, they probably don't care. Like some people truly just want to misunderstand who you are. And some people truly just want to hate. And there's no reason to give energy to that.
because they're probably really miserable.
Jacqueline Trumbull (40:02.579)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (40:04.898)
Did you, mean, even if you're like this projective test mirror for what people are feeling, did you get a sense that people wanted to read something in you? I know we talked about the avoidant piece, but is there anything that you could feel like people got the impression of or wanted to see in you or like what happened to the audience when you look at like how they're reacting to you?
madserr (40:29.477)
It's funny because I truly have stayed on a very positive side of the internet. And when the show was coming out, I did not scroll on TikTok. Or if I did and I saw my face, positive or negative, I would scroll past it. So a lot of the time I don't really know exactly what people are saying about me. I don't go on Reddit. don't, you know. Yeah, like, well, and it's like.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (40:51.062)
All right.
Jacqueline Trumbull (40:53.907)
Very impressive.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (40:54.484)
I like...
madserr (40:58.721)
Yeah, at first I was like the first day and then I was like, this is so unhealthy. And so yeah, I just kind of created those boundaries within myself of like, okay, I don't actually need to know what everyone thinks of me because I know what I think of me. And I know what happens. But I think, I mean, there's, you know, a lot of different narratives of me, like I'm a man eater or I'm whatever which
That's not an insult, by the way. Like if anything, it's kind of a compliment. Like, thank you. You know, like men being like, I'm so scared of her and I'm like, as you should be. You know, but I think at the end of the day, I've been able to see it as just projections of their own experiences and how they feel about themselves. So none of it I've taken personally. And I think that's why I can't really provide like a great example, but.
You know, it slips through the cracks sometimes. Like sometimes I'll see this hate comment or that hate comment or whatever, but I'm like, that's so sad for you.
Jacqueline Trumbull (42:08.447)
It's a very protective attitude. I was definitely Googling myself.
endlessly. Looking myself up on Twitter, was just something so fascinating about seeing how people saw me and I still find that interesting. Obviously there was an ego, massive ego portion to it as well. And then reality TV, kind of the aftermath, like I mean I wasn't necessarily that famous afterwards but my friends were and that was back when The Bachelor could get you a million followers on Instagram. And so I just, the after effects of the show kind of pull your values in different directions, like are you gonna
madserr (42:42.228)
Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (42:42.465)
to be a star fucker or a social chaser, you know, like, are you going to disown friends who have bad reputations because their edits sucked or because things came out about them on social media? So that's kind of all part of it as well. Do you feel like you've had to navigate any of that stuff?
madserr (42:50.656)
Hmm.
madserr (43:02.786)
I mean, it's funny because I just don't feel different. Like, I don't feel like this has necessarily, like, yes, it's changed my life in the sense of like, you know, I'm getting a bag now. Like, I got signed really quickly. I think I was genuinely so surprised at number one, the amount of screen time that I got, and number two, how quickly I blew up. Blew up.
Jacqueline Trumbull (43:09.999)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqueline Trumbull (43:24.627)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (43:30.315)
But it's like, I thought things would feel differently and they don't. Like I still feel very much the same and I still feel very much grounded in myself. Like, I don't know, it's cool when people come in, they're like, my gosh, like you're Madison from Love is Blind. Like that's always really fun, but it's more so like, I don't see that as me being this celebrity or anything. It's more so just like, like I'm meeting my friends. Like I'm meeting new friends.
So yeah, I think in my mind, I really haven't felt that change. But I definitely have had to be a little bit more careful about, you know, like, the types of people that do want to be my friends now. I have experienced that where I have to question people's intentions. I'm like, like, why, why are you so like, intense about being my friend right now?
Dr. Kibby McMahon (44:00.152)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (44:20.162)
Thank you.
Jacqueline Trumbull (44:23.999)
You
madserr (44:28.097)
But yeah, other than that, don't think anything has genuinely really changed for me.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (44:34.872)
This is a question I could ask for both of you, but on the flip side of the negative part, is there anything you've learned about yourself for being in such an intense dating, you know, public dating spheres? anything, I imagine just like looking at yourself, even just on a screen and just, you know, noticing things about you or just learning from the experience of being there. Is there anything that you're like, oh, huh, I know that about me now.
madserr (45:06.434)
I...
Dr. Kibby McMahon (45:07.574)
No,
Jacqueline Trumbull (45:09.661)
I have, but I would rather hear her talk.
madserr (45:12.162)
I think, yeah, the only part that was really interesting for me to watch back, I mean, like you've been saying, Jacqueline, like it's interesting to see how people perceive you. And, you know, there were moments where I was really good at deflecting on TV and I didn't realize that that's what I was doing. So like when I come back in and I'm like, breakups taste good.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (45:12.28)
you
madserr (45:38.25)
And people are like, you were so happy to send him home. First of all, I didn't know he was going home. I had no clue. Like he still had a connection with Meg. I wasn't sending anyone anywhere. Secondly, I was really hurt, but I didn't want to come into a room full of people acting hurt because myself, like how I grew up, I can't show that emotion. I have to be brave. I have to, you know, put on a brave face. And I don't want to show people that I'm hurt because I don't want...
them to think that I allowed someone to like take my power from me or whatever. And so yeah, I come in and I'm like, oh, breakup stays good, but I was deeply, deeply hurt. And so I think that was the first thing I was like, oh, I'm really good at deflecting. And then I think the second one was watching me chase after Alex when it was very clear that he was like putting up all these like guardrails for me.
And I was like, why did I think I deserved that? Like, why did I, why was that the one thing that, you know, I was so sure on when I had so much affirmation coming from other connections, why was it the one that I wasn't getting that from that I went after? I think that was a very eye opening moment for me.
Jacqueline Trumbull (46:52.831)
Do you have an answer to that question?
madserr (46:57.933)
I mean, I think it's just rooted in the trauma of like meeting to prove to people that I am a worthy person of, you I'm worthy of their love and I'm worthy of their trust. And yeah, I think that's been kind of a pattern in my life that all came to a head on that show.
So yeah, it was definitely a pattern that I've seen in the past and then got to experience it real time from like a different point of view.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (47:38.21)
Jack, what did you learn about yourself?
Jacqueline Trumbull (47:41.599)
I mean, I've, from just from like watching the filming back.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (47:46.464)
Either the experience or watching it back.
Jacqueline Trumbull (47:49.471)
From the filming it back I learned I'm sort of an aggressive kisser. So that was the first thing.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (47:55.998)
I hate to see myself kiss, you know, like that's so many private things that I think.
madserr (47:59.485)
my gosh, I'm actually so glad I didn't.
Jacqueline Trumbull (48:02.739)
It's okay because I know I'm a good kisser. So I was watching back. I was like, this is interesting, but whatever. I think I actually came across as pretty... I liked how I came across with Ari. I felt pretty cool, confident, like...
madserr (48:10.149)
It's so funny.
Jacqueline Trumbull (48:22.205)
So I don't know, but I think most of what I learned about myself was afterwards. I learned that I am capable of sticking to my values and not disowning friends and not playing too much into what I think fame was pulling me to do. But I also learned that I'm very susceptible to my ego in other ways and very susceptible to envy. I don't know, I mean, there's sorts of, there's...
On another podcast that's about us, I can probably come up with more stuff, but I don't want to talk too much.
madserr (48:52.633)
What?
I'm really curious to know what was the internet like around the time that your show came out? Because I feel like the internet now has such a grasp on reality TV and how people want to portray themselves. Was that a big influence for you or how people did portray themselves?
Jacqueline Trumbull (49:14.303)
Yeah, I I think a couple things so mine my season aired in 2018 and that was the height of like the woke movement so there was a lot of Angry liberal energy and like I'm more liberal right so I'm not like this isn't me getting you know pro Trumpy or anything, but No, it was just that that it was like me all of everybody I knew was getting attacked by their own like
madserr (49:32.421)
Okay, I was worried. I gotta go.
madserr (49:43.344)
Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (49:44.411)
There was apologies demanded left and right. was just a lot of like, had to really, really watch what you said at all times. there was, I mean, it was just like, it was just the snotty attitude from a lot of people. At the same time, like.
part of that was important and it reformed how people communicate with each other and so there was important stuff too but there was just a lot of paranoia on the internet at that time. And then of course you did have the Trump supporters who were just doing the same thing but less, in a way less aversively because I didn't take them seriously at all.
So it was like a highly, highly political, yeah, highly political environment. So there was that. But I did, what happened with me is like, I had no social media experience before the show. I used it, but very much as like an average consumer. I wasn't trying to be seen in any way. And when I came off the show,
madserr (50:19.647)
It's hard too.
madserr (50:35.493)
Mm-hmm.
Jacqueline Trumbull (50:40.703)
People were instantly like, you have to brand yourself, you have to make use of this once in a lifetime opportunity, you have to post constantly, but you have to really have a vision. I was like, what makes me special? And I was like, PhD girl. So I kind of tried to lean into that branding, and immediately they were like, oh, you're not, you're using big words, you're fake, you're trying to seem smarter than the rest of us, you're not even in a PhD program yet. It was just a lot of tear down of anything I tried to do.
madserr (50:52.709)
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (51:04.994)
Thank
Jacqueline Trumbull (51:09.745)
And once that kind of idea got into people's heads, there was just no coming back from it. I just, I, if anything had like an intellectual event, I would get destroyed. Yeah. So, so that was.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (51:19.864)
Thank you.
madserr (51:24.658)
God forbid a woman be educated. God.
Jacqueline Trumbull (51:33.919)
That was my experience, but I also just wasn't very effective on the platform. I mean, it's just not for me. So I mean, I'm sure a lot of this is my own fault.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (51:40.364)
So, yeah.
madserr (51:46.951)
And that's super interesting. yeah, I definitely have gotten that same, like you have to start branding yourself. You have to start, you know, which is fine. I think that is something that I can naturally just do. Like I have worked in social media before I have worked in corporate. So like I understand kind of, you know, the content pillars and I, yeah, I get all of that. But I think it's interesting the way that reality TV has kind of morphed into this.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (51:47.256)
That's it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (52:10.968)
Thank
madserr (52:15.461)
Like, especially I saw this with the men on our season, like, I don't want to say anything that could get me canceled. And usually it's just their beliefs, you know, like what they truly believe would get them canceled. Or like, a lot of it was very two-faced of like, well, I'm going to say this to you, but I won't say this on camera or, you know, whatever. And I think people are so terrified of being canceled and being like hated on and
Dr. Kibby McMahon (52:22.648)
Thank
Good night.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (52:37.784)
All right.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (52:44.376)
Thank
madserr (52:45.007)
No matter who you are, you're gonna get hate from people. No one from our cast came out of that unscathed. And so it's just like, if you're gonna get hate, then be hated for something you actually wanna stand up for and the type of person you're gonna be. That's kind of my motto.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (52:49.621)
Bye.
Thank you.
Jacqueline Trumbull (52:53.801)
Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (53:01.663)
Yeah.
I mean, there is something though, there is something about you that people seem, there's some confidence about you or effectiveness about you that seems to rub people, certain people the wrong way. And it kind of feels sort of similar to my situation, but more from like who you are, what your vibes are than like the education part of just like, I mean, I see it all the time. Like women who are like confident or have it going on, they often get torn down.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (53:04.504)
Do you me to say something?
Jacqueline Trumbull (53:34.099)
And I don't know if it's more by other women or other men, but some of that seems to be operating on you too.
madserr (53:38.13)
Bye.
Yeah, but you know, this is happening on a larger scale, but I do feel like I've experienced that just throughout my life on personal levels. I feel like I've been in relationships with men who feel like they have to humble me because, you know, they think I'm trying to be better than them because I have a better argument or I say things better than they do or it's women who...
Jacqueline Trumbull (53:48.948)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (54:07.656)
you know, think that I'm trying to be better than them just by existing. Also, sorry, my dog's drinking water and he's really loud. He always does this when I'm like in meetings or in interviews. But yeah, I have experienced that a lot of just people feeling the need to humble me. And I am able to not take that personally only because I'm like, I see that that comes from a deeply insecure place in your life.
Jacqueline Trumbull (54:13.439)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (54:14.316)
Well.
You
Jacqueline Trumbull (54:19.39)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (54:20.822)
No, we're.
Jacqueline Trumbull (54:36.286)
Okay.
madserr (54:36.356)
And there's something in me that causes you to be insecure, but that's not on me, that's on you. And I don't know, like what's that gotta do with me? I don't know. I don't know.
Jacqueline Trumbull (54:48.337)
I mean, on the one hand, you've talked about like insecurity within relationships and having to grow up very alone and, you know, worried that people will leave. on the other hand, you have this really confident persona that people can object to. Like, where do you think that confidence comes from?
madserr (55:06.505)
I mean, I think it is just that thing of I've had to be that way. I've had to be really strong. I've had to stand up for myself. Like I wasn't always this way, you know, but I've had to learn how to exist in the world as like the only person who's going to speak up for myself or, you know, the only person who at the end of the day is truly going to have my back. Like when I don't have parents who
I can fall back on for support or, you know, whatever. Like I just have to be confident in my decisions. Like I don't have a safety net. I've had to be very sure of myself and very sure in the decisions that I make because all I have is me. And I also just think like I'm a Leo. Like I just, have this like fire about me of like, you're not going to tell me what to do. Or I get to decide who I am. Like you're not going to tell me.
Jacqueline Trumbull (55:56.681)
you
madserr (56:04.915)
who you think I am. So not to make everything about astrology, but yeah, I do think it's just that resilience of I get to decide who I am.
Jacqueline Trumbull (56:09.759)
You
Dr. Kibby McMahon (56:17.994)
You, like we could hear the, the work that you've done in the self love and the confidence. mean, even to the point where you're not giving into the curiosity of reading everything on Reddit and Tik Tok about you for, for other people who have struggled with loss or trauma or relational trauma. Can you give a little insight on what, what was like the most helpful in your journey? Like when, when you say you did a lot of work, like what.
What do you think of when you're like, that thing really made a difference or saved me or helped me?
madserr (56:55.314)
Yeah, I think it's not, you know, holding on so tightly to things. Like it's the idea of just like letting things go and letting things be. I think in the past that's really harmed me and harmed my relationships. I'm just like trying to make sure that like things stay where I can see them and where I can control them or, you know, like not having anything surprise me because being surprised was always a really terrible experience for me.
but I think that, you know, just having like a looser grip on relationships or even like jobs or friends or whatever, has really saved me like the hardship of this is how it was supposed to be, or it doesn't mean you're not like heartbroken or you're not sad, but I think just like allowing yourself to feel the waves of those, of the grief or
Dr. Kibby McMahon (57:54.733)
Mm.
madserr (57:54.75)
of the happiness or just allowing it to pass through you without having to actually put a meaning to it has been really, really helpful.
Jacqueline Trumbull (58:10.823)
Yeah, therapy mascot. Spokesperson for acceptance.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (58:16.696)
Mm-hmm.
madserr (58:17.007)
Thank you. Well, I mean, yeah, it's, it's one of those things where there's people who have been able to float through life, they've never really had to, you know, face themselves. But especially being on reality TV, you are forced to face yourself in ways that you probably don't really want to. And so it's kind of this projection of like, I'm either forced
I'm gonna run from this or I'm gonna force myself to grow and I'm gonna force myself to, you know, take this on and run with it instead of just like avoiding doing the work. no.
Jacqueline Trumbull (58:53.814)
no!
Jacqueline Trumbull (58:58.911)
Do we have any further questions?
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:03.53)
maybe any resources or anything she wants to promote or.
madserr (59:07.824)
sorry, my thing was reconnecting.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:11.521)
Should I send the link again? She probably has it, right?
Jacqueline Trumbull (59:16.553)
Probably.
madserr (59:16.925)
Can you see me?
Jacqueline Trumbull (59:21.609)
Can you hear the purring?
madserr (59:22.286)
no.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:23.008)
Yeah. It's OK. That's really cute.
Jacqueline Trumbull (59:24.927)
You
It's like my favorite sound in the world.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:31.032)
No, it's the sweetest,
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:37.218)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:46.488)
She's really nice, I like her. She's cool.
Jacqueline Trumbull (59:47.583)
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (59:57.288)
I'll try to plug cool mine at the end. Yeah, I want to really, I probably will record like a little, like a one minute, one second, like, yeah, put it like in the beginning. Yeah, it's probably better than doing it at the end. So don't worry about it. Just doing our normal sign off, resources, and sign off. Hello.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:00:00.118)
yeah, sorry, I forgot to kick it open.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:00:07.007)
Nice and in.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:00:18.537)
like so.
Welcome back.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:00:26.498)
Can't you.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:00:30.675)
We still can't hear you.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:00:31.16)
All I see is this. Can you hear us? Huh.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:00:41.176)
You're not muted.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:00:47.478)
Maybe if you go to the bottom and you see the mic, maybe it's a different, maybe it's switched to something else or.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:01:13.376)
I'm trying
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:01:14.623)
It she's muted.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:01:22.69)
We could always just like do a new, like a new studio or something like a.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:01:48.337)
to PE.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:01:54.911)
have to apply to graduation soon.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:01:59.736)
exciting. I know Dr. Jacqueline, Dr. Trouble.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:02:00.457)
I can't wait till it says Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:02:06.399)
I feel envious of that every time I see it on your name.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:02:10.328)
Yeah, look at that. Look at that DR. Wow. Couple hundred per hour more. That's what it means. We don't have our cell phone, we?
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:02:17.983)
Ever. Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:02:27.027)
at her Instagram, but.
madserr (01:03:03.784)
Okay, am I back?
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:03:05.208)
Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:03:05.317)
Yeah, we can hear you too.
madserr (01:03:07.091)
Okay, my phone was like freaking out for some reason. Okay, it's still freaking out, but whatever. Okay, I might just have to change to the yes. No, it's my phone. I think it's like overheating or something.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:03:16.152)
We're almost done. Do the last thoughts. Thank you so much. So sorry about the kerfuffle.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:03:16.253)
It's okay, we're rocking it. Yeah.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:03:26.815)
yes, phones do that. Okay. Well, I don't remember. So we kind of talked about how you got to that place and then Kibbe, were you talking after that? I don't remember where exactly we...
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:03:30.68)
you
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:03:37.832)
I think we're talking about what you did to heal, which is learning to, this thing's fine. It's kind of lagging a little bit, but it'll be okay.
madserr (01:03:49.608)
it says reconnecting on my end.
That's what happened last time and then it just shut down on me.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:03:54.102)
No, I could.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:03:58.601)
Okay, we'll wrap up quickly. Well, I don't know if we have, Kimmy, do have any last questions?
madserr (01:03:58.795)
Okay, let's keep going.
So sorry.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:04:10.07)
No, I think this was great. anything that you feel like, any kind of tips for people who have gone through what you have and with trauma and loss, I know that I like the advice to not take things as, not to hold on so tightly. Anything else that you would want to, any words of wisdom or tips for people?
madserr (01:04:36.428)
I mean, honestly, just therapy has been a really great resource for me throughout my life. And I think that's, why I've been able to get to this place. Lots of self-reflection, lots of self-awareness. yeah, therapy, highly recommend it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:04:38.422)
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon (01:04:55.992)
Thanks
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:04:56.147)
We will always have a therapy plug. Okay, fabulous. Anything that you want to promote of your own, where can people find you?
madserr (01:05:08.258)
I am on Instagram and TikTok, so at mads.err. I'm online.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:05:20.794)
Perfect. Well, thank you so, much for coming. I am really, really glad that we got to have this conversation. I think you have so much wisdom to give to others from just like a psychoeducational place. Like everything you've said is very in line with like what we know works, right? So I think, you know, you're a great advocate for all of this. And it was so lovely meeting you for our...
madserr (01:05:32.867)
Thank you.
madserr (01:05:44.96)
Yes.
Jacqueline Trumbull (01:05:46.395)
Little helpers, if you love Mattis as much as we do, please give us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and we'll see you all next week. Yay!
madserr (01:05:56.685)
Thank you so much for having me.
madserr (01:06:01.909)
Yes, so great.
