Ep. 151- Love Island USA Analysis Part 2: The Emotional Intelligence Behind Reality TV Relationships
Now that Season 7 of "Love Island USA" has finished, we're unpacking the fascinating psychological dynamics that made this season so compelling.
In this episode, we discussed how the men of Love Island gave us a masterclass in modern masculinity. In an era where men's mental health is suffering from isolation and loneliness, these bromances offered a refreshing alternative to toxic masculinity. T It turns out that protecting and providing looks different in 2023, and these men showed what's possible when emotional intelligence takes center stage.
The budding romances in the villa gave us fascinating case studies in attachment styles and relationship patterns. Huda's explosive reactions and self-sabotaging behaviors reflected the long term effects of trauma. Meanwhile, Amaya's remarkable trajectory from being criticized as "too much" to winning America's vote demonstrated the powerful influence of social validation on attraction. The season also sparked conversations about accountability versus growth when contestants were removed for past racist social media posts.
**Announcing that the KulaMind community is now officially live and open to listeners of "A Little Help"! We're teaching all the skills discussed on this podcast – from supporting loved ones with mental health challenges to effective communication and boundary setting. Join our exclusive 12-week course where you'll have us in your back pocket, ready to guide you through your specific relationship challenges.
Visit our website or book a free call with Dr. Kibby to learn more about becoming part of this supportive community of Little Helpers focused on improving their relationships affected by mental health struggles.
**Follow @kulamind on Instagram for podcast updates and science-backed insights on staying sane while loving someone emotionally explosive.
**For more info about this podcast, check out: www.alittlehelpforourfriends.com
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Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 0:00
Hey guys, welcome to A Little Help for Our Friends, a podcast for people with loved ones struggling with mental health. Hey Little Helpers. Today is part two of our Love Island psychoanalysis and recap. We are all caught up on 37,000 episodes that came out this season and we are ready to dive in. But first kick it to.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 0:22
Kibbe, really exciting. The Kula Mind community is now officially live, open and running. We did our first live call and it's really really great so far. I mean, the people in it are awesome Basically.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 0:39
Just so if people don't know what this is, this is a place where we're going to teach all the different skills that we talk about on this podcast, so how to get through a breakup, how to communicate effectively, how to set boundaries, how to support a loved one with emotional or mental health issues. So the community if I'll link it on the show notes that that's a place where it's. It's really exclusive and private, so we're not letting everyone in Um, but it really centers around this 12 week course. People can jump in at any point, but it's basically teaching all the different skills that we talk about. For example, next week we're going to do mindfulness of emotions and this week we're doing discovering your values, so you could really rediscover yourself and sense of purpose.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:27
So so far it's been amazing and also it's here for you for whatever you need. So if you want more information on addiction or how to talk to a loved one who you think has borderline personality disorder, this is the place where it's basically having us in your back pocket. So, and, jacqueline, you're going to come in at some point and and co-teach or lead a uh, a skills group week. What skill do you want to teach? What's your favorite? What's your favorite thing to teach?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:59
Um, I actually do like mindfulness and emotions a lot. Um, I liked Dear man a lot, the interpersonal skills generally.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 2:15
It's all interpersonal skills. That's the fun part. It's all an interpersonal effectiveness community. If you're interested, go to KulaMind. com K-U-L-A-M-I-N-D. com. I'll also put a link in the show notes so you could just look at the description and find a place where you can learn more about how to join the community, if you're interested.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 2:33
Amazing. Okay, kimmy, what did you think? By the way, kimmy and I have not discussed this at all. She tried last night and I refused, because I have integrity for this podcast.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 2:46
Wait a minute. You're saying I don't have integrity.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 2:49
We were planning an analysis and I see you all over Instagram like seeing all of your thoughts.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 2:55
I'm like, and now you're like no, I'm not talking about it until the podcast. So just calling you out, how'd you find it? How did you feel about the finale gaslighting everyone, just gaslighting me? Um, I mean this, I, I'm, I'm speaking. I know that we have different perspectives. I'm speaking as a longtime lover of love Island. I've watched a lot of the UK versions which I feel like are the classics, so I really have like a history with this show. This season really felt like, you know, like professional. When a reality show turns when it jumps the shark, and it feels like it jumps the shark when the people in it feel like it jumps the shark, when the people in it are feel like they were auditioning more for influencer role than they are being on the show for realsie. So it just felt really calculated. It just felt like okay, amaya, I have my opinions about maya, she seems really sweet, but it just all seemed like towards the end, you, it felt like a game, I don't know what. What. What do you feel like?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 4:14
I mean I was very happy in my and brian won. I thought that was the right choice, um, and I have positive feelings towards her that we can go into. I mean, I don't know like I wound up enjoying the show because I got attached to a lot of the contestants and, in particular, I really, really loved the male friendships. That kind of sustained me for a while, a while. But I mean I did think the first half of it was really boring, and I do. I didn't find many of the partnerships totally believable or compelling, so I can understand how you would have that opinion, but I did. I did start really enjoying it in the last 10 episodes.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 5:02
Good. Would this inspire? You to go back and watch the the uh, maybe I definitely, definitely would if it were more like 15 episodes.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 5:11
My only thing is like it's such a commitment and there's other shit I want to watch, but I know it's like really compelling. You know like maths, australia. Then I'd watch 36 episodes. I skipped all the after sun stuff, though.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 5:29
Okay, there's a lot for us to talk about. There's the maya, there's how calculated it feels. There's the male friendships, there's huda. Yeah, well, we're definitely. And then I also want to ask you at some point about all of the controversy of the two contestants getting kicked off because of their social media.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 5:45
So, there's a lot to talk about. Okay, first thing, when you said the male, the male friendships, I think maybe because I lately um, because a lot of people in the in the Kula mind community just happened to be people with partners like male partners were struggling.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 6:02
And I've just been doing a lot more research into this and I've just been doing a lot more research into this and we've talked about this on different episodes in the podcast. But men's mental health is down the toilet, like they are not doing well. Like across the board, mental health issues are are skyrocketing everywhere, but especially with men, and a big factor of that is male loneliness. Men are just not good at making friends as much as women, and we know from research that quality of the relationships actually make you live longer, give you a better life above financial status, above IQ and above genes. So relationship, you're like how do I have a happy, long life? It's you know. Make sure that you are not lonely and it's interesting.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 6:55
With Love Island, I also thought about this. I was watching this and I was like, wow, I don't know what the producer Like, wow, I don't know what the producer maneuvering or what they actually like do to manage what these people do in Love Island, but these men are sitting around talking a lot and opening up about their emotion. First of all, they're just spending a lot of time together without phones, without distractions, right. So that's a really, I imagine, like a really cool way to bond. But they're sitting around talking about their feelings and commitment and relationships without distractions, right. So that's a really, I imagine, like a really cool way to bond. But they're sitting around talking about their feelings and commitment and relationships in probably way more and way more depth than men usually do.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 7:34
So I wonder if that's a big piece where suddenly it's like you're seeing these magical bromances happening and it's like magical bromance is happening and it's like I really actually am happy that this show exists for the sole purpose of showing young men what's possible and that it's actually okay to cry. I mean these men, I have never seen a more emotional group of men, in a good way, right. Emotional as in like willing to cry, willing to express their feelings, willing to, like hug each other and cuddle each other. Not emotional like rage. Nobody was enraged, which was nice to see. Right, it was like men really adopting the softer side of themselves and still embodying masculinity. Like I would say, all these men were pretty masculine and what did they get out of it? They got great friendships. I mean the scene where they, the four men, were all in the same bed. I was just like it was such a cute little moment.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 8:34
Um, they've put stuff on Instagram of, like, the men being very physical with each other, like roughhousing or doing tricks, or like Nick and Pepe. I think it was had a really cute video and it's just really nice to see. I mean, when, when Nick originally left and Ace and Taylor were going through it like more, it seems, almost more significantly than the women were, it was really sweet that they were able to show each other how much they meant to each other and laugh about it a little bit. Even I remember, early in the season, I really liked this moment where Nick tells I think it was Ace that he and Sierra had sex and he was like it's the best 20 seconds of my life, like he's even able to joke about his own. You know, like coming too quickly, like they just it was really sweet and I I I'm hoping that this wasn't my guess is that these men because they actually demonstrated a lot of emotional maturity with the women and in other instances that they might be examples of Gen Z that are well-adjusted, because there are now parents right who are like cultivating their little boy's emotional worlds and who are, you know, being intentional about socializing them.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 9:57
And obviously these men are men who have had a lot of social success in the past. They wouldn't be on the show if that weren't true, so I doubt that they are normally really lonely. You've got two of them right who were former or current professional basketball players. That's like a big team. Chris is current and then Pepe was former.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 10:22
I didn't know that.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 10:24
Yeah, I mean in pro can meet a lot of things. I mean that doesn't mean they were in the NBA, but like they could have been you know international players or but that that you know they've got a team like they. I'm sure that is filled with close friendships. But I mean there were people like Ace, who I did not realize was 22 until the end. I'm a big Ace fan fan, as we know. But he turned away from the little finger arc and more towards the nice guy. So um showed a lot of emotion.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 10:51
I think he got I think he got kicked off because he he he lost his emotional control.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 10:57
I think he got aggressive um like there was, oh gosh, I can't remember, but I think it was one of those challenges where they had to talk, um, I think, towards the end. I just remember a couple episodes where he was kind of blamey of other people and I think he was like just frustrated in general and a little bit like he was jealous of shelly. But he got, he got a little controlling in a way and like snappy at people. Um, then again, like you know, I don't, I, I don't think he acted on it incorrectly, like I don't think he. He was um, uh, you know, just out of line, but he, I think he, I think people turned on him. That's why they kicked him out I was.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 11:45
I mean, it's not that I was surprised that they were kicked out, because obviously that few episodes before they'd been ranked low, but I didn't understand that at all. I found them to be the most compelling couple a compelling meaning, believable, like.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 11:56
I actually could buy into their relationship and think that they might last. And I thought that Ace was a very, very good communicator and I thought he did regulate his emotions really well. But I don't know, it'd be interesting to talk through like what you saw as controlling. I mean, there was that episode where they all had to write secrets about each other, where everybody lost their shit. I think that was it. Yeah, and yeah, I mean he and Austin had like a big fight and I saw Austin's side. Honestly, I was kind of siding with him in that.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 12:22
But yeah, I think he got, I think he's got a little like, got a little just backed into a corner and got a little aggressive at certain points. But I, I, I, I take your point that I was, I was surprised the whole way through. It really was a cast of people who were very emotionally intelligent and communicative. I mean Alandria man, like that woman you know, got angry at appropriate times, um, apologized when there was miscommunications you know like, made up conflicts, I mean. And then the men too, I mean even like we don't really love and the whole world doesn't really love Taylor's choice of leaving Alandria, but I think it was. He spoke genuinely, he was like I'm looking to explore connections, I really like Alandria, but Clark made me feel something different, something more boyish and fun, and that's what I'm going with. And I was like, wow, that's really articulate and very clear, that's really articulate and very clear.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 13:24
It was funny. I mean I understand why Taylor and Clark got kicked off, because I don't think that Clark's personality shown through. I'm sure she's wonderful but I don't think she was the best like reality TV star. And so I think people just saw him leaving Alandria who'd put all this effort into and they'd seen, they'd seen them like forge a connection rather than have like a light bulb connection like he and clark did, and so it was upsetting to watch him leave alandria, who people knew really well, for clark who is more introverted, but the confusion around how could he leave someone who had put in so much effort and time is like completely ignoring how attraction works.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 14:08
I mean, it's really not hard to leave somebody who's put in a lot of time and effort when they maybe had to put in that time and effort because the attraction actually wasn't that strong and they had to like forge it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 14:22
Like I never thought.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 14:22
Taylor was that convincingly into her and that's interesting. I don't know, did you?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 14:30
uh, yeah, I think you're right. I think in the beginning they did have this issue of um. She was asking for him to show more, or and he. She was even swayed by Jaden Jalen, um the new guy, because he was a little bit more um taking initiative, right, and he there, they did explain it at some point.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 14:48
Um, I think someone even said this. They said you know, lander's more serious and more like, you know, like got our shit together, whereas clark, you know, maybe, is more fun and laid back. So there it just maybe brought out something different in taylor, but I just it could be physical, like we have no idea, but obviously he knows when he's really into somebody and he knows, so it just maybe brought out something different in Taylor, but I just it could be physical, like we have no idea.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 15:06
But obviously he knows when he's really into somebody and he knows like the show. The show incentivizes people Coupling up Right. So like of course he's going to invest in Alandria if she's the only one showing him interest and the only one available, but then when something better comes along for him, then like yeah, he's gonna jump ship, but it just didn't go very well for the audience there is something weird about the whole structure of this show.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 15:35
I I mean in in the old, uh, love island it really did. You really did see real connections and couples that like formed in like week one and stayed. Sometimes they won, sometimes they didn't. But this season felt really punishing of people who had genuine connections, like as soon, like the whole Hannah and Pepe, you know, anytime someone actually liked each other, like even Ace and Shelly. As soon as they actually go, yeah, we like each other. It's like they're ripped apart.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 16:08
Right and I don't know Some of it seemed to be like timing, like the whole Sierra controversy, but it really was like I'm not surprised that at the end there weren't that many genuine couples, because the genuine couples were kicked off.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 16:21
I know this was my point the last time we did this. I was like what is the point of this show? Everyone who gets a connection gets kicked off. So I found it really hard to invest in because I couldn't figure out what, what it is that they were supposed to be doing. And I mean, yeah, when Pepe asked during that it was interesting, first of all, during the time when they had to share secrets about each other. He, he said, was I don't get why hannah was kicked off.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 16:45
We had a great connection and then it seemed like they were kind of aggressive about it, like they were like you locked in and we didn't think that you know you need to explore more people and it's like what. But I liked her, like what's going on you?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 16:59
had already explored hannah, like what, and they had like two episodes to be together. I mean it wasn't like they locked in for 10 episodes, I just yeah, I mean I I'm still confused about that. It is amazing, like who makes it to the end? And in this case it was Amaya. And look, I think Amaya has. She's a very compelling reality TV character, but she's really lucky she didn't find a connection sooner, because I think part of it was like oh, we're at the end, now you can have a relationship, like now you're going to invest.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 17:37
Okay, well, this is the thing that felt the most schemey scammy to me, amaya. I like how genuine she is. I love how communicative she is about her feelings. Like it's all on the surface. It is a little bit dysregulated, right. She does feel like a young child.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 17:59
Oh, I think the whole reason they love her is she can't regulate emotions, but she's good natured, so most her relation, most of her emotions are positive, and so you're just seeing dysregulated, positive emotion, which is childlike we did see her flip out a couple times right and cry a lot, you know.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 18:15
So we know she can't regulate those, but she also can't.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 18:18
I don't think people are used to not to seeing people who can't regulate positive emotions and I think that harmed everyone.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 18:25
But I think that was all the time.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 18:27
And they would say that she had the zoomies. It's like, yeah, Amaya can't regulate her positive emotions. Most of us don't know where.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 18:33
Belgium is. I mean like one of the guys was like my mom is in Belgium or something. She was like, oh, germany. And he's like, no, belgium, the country. Anyway, we won't talk about it. I've been a society. She, this poor girl, stands up there encircled by all the people that she's dated and she's friends with and America, and three guys she dated were like you're too much you, you come on too strong. I didn't like that. That's why we rejected you.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 19:22
And she's just poor girl, is crying and none of none of the guys who dated her like came to her defense, like were nice. They all were like, yeah, me too, you freaked me out and she's just like sobbing and I. And then, and then I think america voted. After that they voted her positively because I feel like everyone can sympathize with being shamed for being too into someone. And then there was that challenge where it was like you actually got to see how America voted on each person and Amaya was just like everyone thought she was the most genuine, the most kind or whatever. And then, right after that, all the guys were suddenly super interested in Amaya. So, talking about auditioning for influencer role, I mean Brian, who the F is Brian? He just slipped right in and was just like I get it, you're Hispanic, I like that.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 20:19
And suddenly he sails to the top 50K and this guy, you know, like everyone, was just riding the amaya train to victory yeah, I mean I saw somebody comment that like their relationship seemed fake, like brian just went and got into her because of america's voting and like that's perfectly plausible. You know, I don't know how to tell I he seemed like he could be charmed by her more convincingly than anybody else was able to. When he looked at her I could, there was a little bit of. There was a part of him that seemed a little bit taken aback, but there was another part of him that was holding her energy and that seemed endeared, you know to it. That was holding her energy and it seemed endeared, you know to it. I don't know, I mean, he is at least the only person who defended her before she was popular.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 21:12
So I mean it's possible for a second. I mean he was just like yeah, hispanic people express their affection and say babe a lot. And then they showed that clip and their whole like like you know, the love story at the end, like the last episode, where they try to pretend like all these people have this like beautiful love stories and they're like really scraping, like the producers have to look back at some cute moments that doesn't involve other people, right, like let's find Nicolandria clips without Sierra, like you know, and then they find that one clip of Brian saying, yeah, but she's Hispanic, of course she's gonna say babe, and then that was, like you know, part of the story. Anyway, I'm glad that she won because it really did seem like a redemption arc, right of like being totally trash for being, you know like overly enthusiastic and then winning.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 22:07
I think that was like a good, a good, a good victory for people who feel and in an age where it seems like everybody is auditioning to be influencers, I think her inability to regulate any emotions means that she's also incapable of masking, and so she is always authentic, whether that is by design and by courage or not. But yeah, I mean you got the sense that she's certainly real. The Zoomies.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 22:39
I love that, just like this grown-ass woman just running around screaming.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 22:46
Yeah, and I hope that Brian's legitimately into her. I really do. I mean, I think if someone can appreciate her, then they'll have a good life. Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 22:55
It's not to say that they are a bad couple or that you know, like he doesn't like her, that was all fictional, but like it just seemed like the tables turned.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 23:06
You know what?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 23:06
It's. It's this interesting that when I watched Parks and Rec have you ever watched that show? Parks and Recreation with Amy Poehler?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 23:15
A couple episodes, yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 23:17
So there's season one, and season two are dramatically different.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 23:20
Season one, leslie Knope. The main character is really hardcore, enthusiastic, like super eager, super involved, super dedicated to her work and everyone is like eye rolling. It's kind of like the office at first, where it's like oh, this boss, oh too much. And then the writer said that all they did was change how people reacted to her for the season two. In season one they're like oh, this girl. Season two, they're like this girl, but we love her, and that changed the tone of the show, but the character stayed exactly the same. And it's this interesting like what does it make Like think about how social we are?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 24:19
Interesting Like, what does it make what? Like think about how social we are, like, and what I can say is that when a man had money, they'd always be worried that someone was dating him for his money, and I'm like, but it's going to be really hard to figure that out, because here's the thing when you have money, that woman is genuinely more attracted to you. It's not that she is attracted to money and will take the man because they come hand in hand. That might be true for, like you know, like wolf, ugly, dudes, but in general, like, if you have an asset that somebody wants, then you might actually see their personality is better too. Like if, like a hot girl, a guy is going to genuinely be more attracted to her personality as well as her face because she's seen as desirable and somebody to like attain, like, why are you making that face?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 25:08
oh, are you talking about the halo effect that I mean, I think? I got confused there because you said that the like women are attracted to the money and therefore they'll find that guy more attractive. But I think what you're saying is the halo effect, which is like if they have a good quality, you might tend to see a lot of their qualities as also positive. Is that what you're?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 25:28
talking about. I think it's the same thing. Right, like money is a good quality for a lot of women, and so then they see the person is more attractive Like if.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 25:37
I saw Mark Cuban on the street, I wouldn't be like, wow, that guy's hot and I want to talk to him. But because I know he's Mark Cuban, suddenly I find him a lot more attractive. Like I'm intrigued by Mark Cuban, the person In part. It's like how did he get the money? How is he so successful? That must you know, say something about him. But I think, like we see this with attractive women all the time Guys will be like I want to get to know that person because her personality is attached to this body. In other words, when amaya got voted highly by america, suddenly she was accepted and lauded by a lot of people. She's seen as more desirable and I think that suddenly her behavior, which to the men initially had felt desperate or weird or not adult, was cast in a different light.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 26:28
Yeah, that light is they will get more famous if they hang out with her, but I don't think that that's necessarily it.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 26:36
That's saying that they're only that like as soon as they hang out with her and then you know, when they go home they'll like break up because they've gotten their use out of her. But I think there's a separate hypothesis, which is these qualities about her aren't embarrassing. There's something people like, and so now I don't have to feel ashamed or weird about liking them. I don't have to not like them in order to be accepted. If I actually like her, I will be accepted. Therefore, I will be able to see her better and appreciate her more.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 27:11
Yeah, I guess maybe what we might say is what does the signs indicate? Like what you said, I'm interested in Mark Cuban, or we find him more intriguing because social dominance and resources and intelligence is something that's attractive, and maybe business success on a show or something. Therefore, he might have these qualities that I'm attracted to. If Amaya was voted high by America, maybe like if I don't really know her, I'm, but then if America voted, maybe there's a sign that she's actually a good person, or maybe her emotions aren't scary or a sign of something bad, but it's actually a sign that she's like a really genuine and bubbly person ever dated a guy who comes on really, really strong and is like really loud and outgoing and you could see him as obnoxious and you could be kind of embarrassed to take him along and meet your friends.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 28:25
But as soon as your friends react like really really well to him, suddenly you're like oh okay, it's okay for me to like him, like I'm not going to get rejected for this, I don't have to like he's just really outgoing and charming versus over the top and obnoxious.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 28:43
Yeah, I think.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 28:44
I think this is like how much does society and like your friends and the world, see you, know your potential partner, how much their opinion matters, right, and I think that I think to a degree right that if the world um, I mean it just, there's human nature, if I, if there's a guy and all my friends are into him, I, there might be a signal of like there's something. This person is a high value catch, this person's a catch. I don't know why yet, but they're you know, the social dominance is something that is part of the attraction. But there's also something to be said about like maybe it's not about what people feel, right, it's it's are you happy with that person. It might be someone who everyone is into, but those qualities are good or bad fit for you individually, because, at the end of the day, like, yes, my friend's opinions matter in terms of what you know, do they like my husband or whatever, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it's like you know, like maybe they don't like him and I'm the one who's with those qualities, right?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 29:54
All I'm saying is that I don't know that Brian's feelings for Maya were fake, like just because he wanted, you know, america to like him. I think that America liking he could have very well been influenced by that, and I'm sure everybody was. But I mean, this is how popularity works, right, like? How many times did we like the popular guy in high school and would have written off plenty of negative characteristics because he's seen as desirable? It's also how the Bachelor works. Nobody breaks up with the Bachelor. I only broke up with him because I was going to get fired. But you know, the whole premise of the show is this guy's desirable. Go get him. And then people genuinely liked him. It wasn't like they, it wasn't like they were just playing the game the whole time.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 30:43
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 30:47
We got to talk about Hoda.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 30:48
I'm sorry to make a hard left turn of this conversation. But like great, Like love is real, Amaya is great and America has recognized that Fantastic.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 31:04
Yeah, I mean, I have lots of thoughts about that.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 31:07
Okay, let's, let's dive into Huda, because I feel like she's a really interesting person to talk about from a psychological perspective, because I feel like I'm right.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 31:17
I feel like.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 31:20
I just feel like we talked about this in our last episode, but that she, that Huda, is someone who comes in showing exactly what the dangers could be of having a core belief, a negative core belief about yourself from previous trauma. And I'm saying that because actually there was another podcast, um, uh, I think it's call me daddy, so she was on another podcast and she talked a lot about her history and her history. It was kind of rough. I don't know if you've heard about this or saw this online, but she, um, I think her dad was, her parents were abusive, like her dad would be really abusive and they'd be really sweet. Um, people like the CPS was called on her. She'd witnessed a lot of, like domestic violence between her parents. She was bullied in school. She struggled with eating disorders and suicidality.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 32:20
Yeah, so she, she really didn't have a safe, stable background and you could feel that when she was dating at least I could see something like that with Jeremiah, because Jeremiah, I don't know, like all the guys she dated Okay, fine, they have their faults, they weren't right for her, I agree, but she reacted so strongly Like it really was this like negative bias that we're talking about, where it was so they would do something and then she would react so angrily to it and of course there's probably a whole history like there. There are probably many moments of that and the cameras are just going to show one piece. But she would just blow up on these guys just because he didn't make the right pancake, or he wouldn't turn to cuddle her, or you know just all these, all these things that would just Made her look like she was anticipating being let down.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 33:22
Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. Um, I think that I was usually able to see the thing about their behavior she was reacting to. But I mean, I went on quite a journey with Hood and myself because I at various times I strongly disliked her and at various times I was really rooting for her. And I think you know, the last time we, the last place we left off with her when we were recapping, was that she obviously exploded on Jeremiah in an inappropriate way, obviously exploded on Jeremiah in an inappropriate way, but that then she I thought she gained some of my respect when she actually was able to put it to rest and move on and not be a vortex of of drama and attention for the rest of the show. Meaning, like you know, if I had been left in a humiliating fashion and had to then watch that person go on and date, I would probably draw a lot more to myself and cry a lot more and be a lot more dramatic. Um, I don't, I shouldn't say that. That's actually kind of incorrect. I'm not a very dramatic person, but I don't think I would be able to sit there with a smile on my face, correct? I'm not a very dramatic person, but I don't think I would be able to sit there with a smile on my face. Um, then I started. Then I had a big upward trajectory with her for a really long time because I saw her as regulating more and when she met Chris, she, um, she was drawn to what seemed like it would be a healthy dynamic.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 34:57
Um made a lot of comments in ITMs about not wanting to fuck it up, like it seemed like she was really vulnerable in those moments, about, you know, knowing her behaviors to some extent and knowing that she risks pushing people away and being very scared of that and insecure about that. And, you know, I thought that was a good thing to admit and think about. I also saw her as really accepting a lot of feedback from her friends and really intentionally trying to develop and grow. She'd say things like you guys would be so proud of me, I just walked away. I just walked away. I didn't blow up Right, like she is taking people's feedback seriously for a while.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 35:46
Um, and then you know, like with the whole PDA thing, I was like you know, I think that you're targeting the wrong thing. I don't think that people objected to you and Jeremiah because of PDA, necessarily, but I understand, having gotten hurt, and then trying to figure out all the different hypotheses of how this went wrong and trying to control for all of them, um, I, I thought that that whole thing demonstrated some immaturity, but I was still she. I was still kind of endeared by her. She was trying. She was trying not to fuck things up, um.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 36:22
You know she kept walking away from him, presumably because she was getting overwhelmed, flooded. That wasn't effective. She should have named a timeout, but not everybody knows that whatever. Then they kind of got over in a mature way and then then she nosedived and completely betrayed all of her progress by um being very inappropriate about demanding touch at bed, at, you know, in bed, and then completely self-sabotaging and ending it with him and then being proud of herself for that Um being like I'm a girl boss, cause I ended it with this guy who doesn't like me enough. Right Like isn't physical enough, I'm like that's not what happened is not what happened, and and uh yeah.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 37:16
And then he you know he gave a beautiful speech in there, like when they went up and he he described her the way she really should want to be seen by a man. So I was like, ooh Huda, you made a big time mistake here. Like you should not be proud of self-sabotaging and deciding to end this because it was uncomfortable and you can't handle conflict and confrontation about your shitty behavior. She never owned up to being controlling and inappropriate and treating him like a. Somewhere she learned that the way to get respect is to break balls. I'm sure that was modeled for her somewhere, probably, like, maybe by a social media person. You know being like girl powers don't take this shit from a man.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 38:05
Speak up for your worth, which, like there's a way to do that right yeah um and uh and yeah, yeah, I was like what, what a bad note to end on.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 38:21
Yeah, what do you think? What do you think happened? Do you like you're saying that it wasn't she? She didn't break up with him because he didn't like her? What do you think was the actual thing that made her made, made the whole thing fall apart?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 38:40
was the actual thing that made her made, made the whole thing fall apart. I think she didn't. I think she can't trust a potentially good thing, um, and she was too uncomfortable with being confronted for her behavior, so much probably, and felt like the safer thing to do was to just walk and have a. Maybe she thought it was a girl pal moment, I don't know, like her claim that they have. You know this, these physical problems doesn't really make a lot of sense, given that he's the one who wanted to be more physical during the day. And then she turns around and is like you're not physical enough with me at night, like maybe because he's kind of bummed that you won't touch him during the hours between 7am and midnight. Like that bummed me out.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 39:24
Yeah, I so many things. First first thing was she is an example of someone who might be so shame prone and so crushed by shame that you could tell she just doesn't do well with um getting called out, right Like she didn't take accountability many times, even in the whole Shelly conflict. Um, where she was, shelly was mad at her. She kind of like she apologizes but she collapses under it, like when someone calls her out, she just you know, she either says no, that's not my fault, I didn't do this, or she like, you know, like sobs.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 40:02
So she really can't take criticism. And then I think you're right. I think there's something she she's a good example of something that I struggle with when it comes to the online conversation about girl power and a female empowerment. There's this tendency to latch onto these, really, um, like almost like flimsy signs of power, like to be like I need to be treated like a queen, and if they don't treat me like a queen, they're done Right queen. And if they don't treat me like a queen.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 40:38
They're done right and so sometimes like for her to what that tends to look like. Is it's okay and strong and powerful for you to completely yell at a guy or punish them for not making a pancake in the way that you want to? Or the scene that I really like alex and I just died laughing um was when she broke up with him and then he's walking through the water like the water, you know, yeah and she's like you're not gonna, you're not gonna, hold me, you're gonna, yeah, you're gonna, make me walk through this water.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 41:15
And he's like, yeah, and I like I just had this judgmental like response of like you were just so like that feels like entitlement, you to be hooked on. These really like false signs of respect and care and how a man should treat a woman like they. He should make a pancake, perfectly. He should carry her through the water that she's completely missing. This like other stuff that these guys do to be kind to her like I thought it was really respectful that, um chris, the way he handled the breakup.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 41:57
he was just like I, like you, but what's your opinion? And she breaks up with him and she says, well, let's be friends around our friends, and he goes. You know, I can't just stop liking you, so for now, I think that has to be a no for me.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 42:13
I'm like wow, that is a sign of a man who's like treating her well. He's like owning his feelings, not being mean about it, but, you know, setting his boundaries clearly. I was like that that is something that we should, that. That that to me feels more like princess treatment than like whether a pancake was made perfectly. You know what I mean.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 42:38
Yeah, yeah, I mean also, it was an interesting moment where he chose to sleep in soul ties and she's like I think he's being a little bit dramatic Like no, he's not, he doesn't want to sleep next to somebody who dumped him, like why can't you understand that, would you? You know? So it's, yeah, I mean I think you know I have a bit of soft spot towards her because I can tell that she has a lot of pain and that she wants to work through it and that in some moments she tries to, but she just gets so triggered and I think she would be exceptionally difficult to be in a relationship with right now. I also think that she'll probably get to a good place one day because I think she has good intentions. But there is some lesson that she's taken in that she needs to like take no shit from men and that she needs to call them on it and also that, like breaking balls is charming.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 43:33
You know, like she would. She would criticize him, but she would mean it in a cute way, like it was. There was an example when they had the baby together and I don't know, I'm not going to remember it well enough to give a good example, but Jeremiah would complain about this too, too, like when she would say something like good job, or she would make herself the judge of whether something behavior was good or bad, but she would say it with a twinkle in her eye.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 44:03
But the guy would be like no, gross, like you know, don't tell me to never do something again, or you know, to I, I don't know, I I wish I had a better example, but but I just I see that behavior in women sometimes and it always goes poorly for them because men don't like to be patronized and ordered around.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 44:26
Yeah, yeah, I think that, uh, I think it's so hard for us to know how to actually get control and feel secure with men that we are locking into certain behaviors that are good or bad, as, like, I mean, I blame, I blame Instagram, I blame myself.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 44:45
You know like five signs, that five red flags that he is toxic, and it's like, does he pull out the chair for you or, so to speak, right, like and there's these, all these behaviors that are like held as the signs and then it's seen as like you know, owning, like knowing your worth by, by demanding those signs right, demanding the green flags and and punishing them out of the red flags.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 45:11
But no, those are signs of something and just because they're acting in a different way, but it's like they're looking, maybe she's just looking for the wrong signs. And the other thing I've felt with her is and I don't know this for certain, but I got the sense it's kind of like people who've been through trauma or abusive relationships or have borderline features. There's this like hot, cold and and maybe this is my own experience with people with BPD, where they, when they feel rejected or unsafe or attachment, insecurity, they might shut down. Well fine, I'm out of here, you do this and I I had enough, let's break up. So they cutting off the legs to see if you crawl back. So it sometimes feels like a test of like I'm going to remove myself and and deprive, punish you by depriving you of me, cause you've hurt me.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 46:12
Wait a minute.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 46:14
Wait a minute. Why are you leaving? Why are you leaving? The test was whether you can come and chase me and show me that you actually love me. So it's like with Huda, she, she would yell at Jeremiah all the time whenever he withdrew, and then he'd be like I'm sorry, you're right, I do, I'm really, I promise I'm in this, and then she'd be happy, right, until it didn't happen. So I wondered if, like Huda, was, you know, giving the cold shoulder just to see if Chris would rise up, but like most people would be like okay, you're cutting me off, I'm out of here.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 46:52
Yeah, and his response really cut through that. He was like all right, cool, I already knew. Yeah, and his response really cut through that. He was like, all right, cool, I already knew, thanks for making it official, you know Like we'll be fine. And then, yeah, and then her trying to get some sort of closeness back oh well, we can be friends, right, we'll be cool. No, but I don't hate you though, but I need to stop liking him modeling like I don't have to be a dick in response to you crashing out. Apparently, that's new lingo I've learned from the show, by the way.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 47:22
I know it's everywhere, that's what the kids are saying Crashing out.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 47:33
I don't know. I really demonstrated like I feel, like that's what a therapist would do in response to that kind of behavior to like, okay, you made your choice and now I'm going to make you live in your choice.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 47:44
I'm going to be respectful and kind, but you made your choice and I have to stop liking or like I have to stop liking you, or basically admitting that, like in the face of her rejecting him, he pulled back but said like I still like you, like I'm the one who wanted to continue this, and I was like wow, he's not afraid to. You know, like in the moment when people get rejected, it's tempting to be like well, I didn't want you. Anyway, you're need to like pretend that they're the rejecter. But he was just like I'm the one who likes you and you're rejecting me, so I'm going to, I'm going to step back.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 48:27
I thought it was like wow, it was a fantastic moment for those reasons that you say and also because I think he was also modeling. She chose to walk away when she felt vulnerable and he is modeling even when I'm rejected. I'm still going to be vulnerable, but in a boundaried and self-respectful way that I like you. I have feelings for you, even though you don't like me, where she right. Walked presumably because she's worried that she's not in church. She's shamed.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 49:06
Yeah.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 49:06
She's not good enough, she's rejected. So I thought that was also really power. Yeah, really powerful.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 49:10
So go, chris man, these men, I know men on this show the emotional, the emotional maternity. I don't think Austin maybe not so much, but, like a lot of them, are pretty good.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 49:23
I really liked Austin, though. But yeah, I mean going back to Ace, like I just thought, I don't know. I thought he handled most of that really well too. I mean, I thought he let Shelly come to him for the most part, but he was also able to say what he believed in many, like many instances. I don't know, I was really into him. It's been a couple of episodes since I've seen him so I don't remember, but um, I thought I'm just having a thought okay.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 49:49
I'm just having, I'm gonna just jump in here. I think I in the, I think in the this past season of our podcast or maybe last one, we've been like, what's going on with men, Uh-oh, what are we going to do with? Punishing the old, toxic masculinity and leaving boys or young men with, like what do I do now? How do I be a man and feel powerful and not ashamed and not like a dick for just being me? Like, how do we course correct here? Like what do we do now?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 50:24
And I think that you know we should keep harping on these moments when we I mean it might be a little, you know, like they're not a Landria, but like a lot of these men demonstrate a lot of emotional intelligence, and I think that's where our value is resting. More than I mean, of course, we still value, you know, success or ambition or social dominance in other ways in men, Um, but I think emotional intelligence is a lot more valuable for us than brute force right Like instead of being like man who's going to hunt and have a hinge picture with a fish and whatever, like we.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 51:02
We want a little bit more of like. Can you listen to my feelings and can you express boundaries in a really compassionate way? Can you be vulnerable? Can you talk about feelings? Can you make friends? I think those are the well like yeah.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 51:16
I mean a thousand, a thousand percent, I think. I think that the answer is not. It doesn't have to be so mysterious and confusing. Men like to. They always say this right, we protect and provide. Okay, well then, figure out what we actually need protection from, like because we don't live with saber-toothed tigers anymore. We don't, you know, we're not at war in our country. Like?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 51:38
I love that. Yeah, the thing that is that has persisted is is we need to be protected and before every, every one, every feminist jumps in and says, oh, we're not protected. I mean, I was there when I was like we don't need protection, but when I got pregnant and I, you feel vulnerable, you feel crazy, you feel like I have a new life, that like, I just wanted to be protected, right. But I think you're right. Like, what men have to do now to protect us is different than when we were defending against saber-toothed tigers, which that's an interesting like. When, when, when were we human beings defending ourselves against saber-toothed tiger?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 52:25
but I see what you mean it's been a while, but you know, I think there, you know we lived in. We lived in worse conditions and you know yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 52:35
A hundred years ago, Even more, Even, like you know, like we don't need hand-to-hand combat men like being able to command an army. We need men to have the intelligence to be able to operate drones. No, never mind, don't.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 52:51
Yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 52:52
That's not the thing.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 52:54
I think, like you know, I look at Jason and he makes me feel very protected and provided for. Like is he a big, strong man? He's a lanky, you know, six foot dude. Like, yeah, he could probably fight somebody successfully, but I don't need him to. That would make me feel less safe If he, like, went and had a fight with somebody, unless it was, like you know, purely defensive. He makes me feel safe because he takes care of shit he has. He sets up a home in a way for it to be successful. He always does his duty. You know he's responsible and he can handle me.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 53:30
When I'm emotional, I get to feel like younger, I can be sweeter, I can be softer. Men love us when we're soft, right. So, like, build the conditions that allow our softness. Otherwise we are going to have to come in and, you know, be big girls and that's not going to be as pleasant. So, like, you can still be men. Just do it the way these love island dudes are. They're doing a good job and they're providing right. They're making dinner for the lady or breakfast for the ladies like they're. They're the ones coming up with the date ideas. Like men can lead in all sorts of ways.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 54:16
okay, this is inspiring me for the the cool of mind instagram content and all that I you know, or even just for the cool mind community. Let's, I'm going to go through the show. It's going to be my new obsession, so thank you so much for you know, killing my whole week. But I'm going to go through and find, I'm going to find examples of like the kind of men that we want, Cause even Pepe, right, Like Pepe was just.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 54:40
I mean, I would date Pepe today if I were single. Oh my God.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 54:45
That guy, his DMs are going to explode. I mean he just was like honest, solid, same thing, like when he was hurt that Hannah was voted off and everything like that. He just seemed like a solid dude, but emotionally present, slow, kind, attentive, ugh, hot, I mean hot.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 55:05
I mean hot. Oh my God, Pepe. I very rarely get attracted to people on TV nowadays and he is so outside my type from first glance, like with the, you know, just with the bro-y kind of look, but holy shit, he was so hot and most of it was his personality. Shit, he was so hot and most of it was his personality, he was so modest. But he clearly has a lot going for him. You know that he just sort of ekes out like you don't know all these things at first. He's not showboating, he takes his time, he makes women feel like women, Like the whole. You know, I was not surprised that they were voted so far because, like people just want to keep seeing him. And Iris was perfectly fine. I actually kind of it was sort of sweet because she could clearly see his worth. She's like, do you think he actually likes me? Like, do you like she would seem really into him and um, and he has this quality where he's not desperate, Like he's not chasing, he's pursuing just the right amount.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 56:09
He oh my God, I could. I could gush all day about Pepe, pepe's great Pepe. Yeah, no, I like, I don't know. I I, if you were single, I'd say slide into his DMS, but maybe I'll just make you slide into his DMs anyway, okay. Last thing I wanted to talk about was all the controversies about taking off. What is it? Ulyssia? What's her name? Ulyssia and Ciara because of racist comments they had on their Instagrams.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 56:42
Do you know what Ciara's racist comments were?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 56:44
by the way, yes, but why don't you say it on? Why don't you say it now?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 56:49
I'm not gonna say it. I'm not allowed to say it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 56:51
You're allowed to say it okay, I'll say it, it's asian people I think it's interesting that I feel like in our previous experience and in general, I feel like white people tend to be more upset about the Asian comments than I feel I mean don't get me wrong Like if someone did did a cheeky, like the times that people have made fun of me for being Asian, like they, it hurt, but I feel like there's, you know, like there is some wars going on that I'm like I don't I personally and I am sorry if this offends anybody I personally wouldn't rip someone off of a show. I think it does show a lack of good judgment because she's going on a national television show.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 57:52
Go, scrub your Instagram before you go on a show like that and take off anything that has anything to do with race or anything else. Right, just like be smart about this, not the most kind, or like use another word. However, if she had, if this had come out on the show and she had deeply apologized and made up for it and was like, oh my God, I realized like this is so offensive, I would be like, fine, let her be on the show. If it was an indicator of other things like I think someone.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 58:25
Someone said on a podcast at some point that Sierra was the most fake person on the show. I think Huda said this she's, or somewhere. I saw this clip. Maybe I just made it up in my mind and I'm just spreading false news. It's more stupid than just stupid. Just just go through your Instagram and just clean it up, you know, or don't do those things. Don't do them in the first place. Don't think those things in the first place.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 58:53
Don't use racial slurs but you know, yeah, are you not having?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 59:04
an opinion now, because you don't want to step in it kind of I mean look I got in trouble with duke for having a a good uh a caption that said hashtag english, which is also an asian dick. It's just that. In my case, it was a trip to taiwan with my taiwanese friend who taught me that word as if it was like a cool, accepted thing that everybody said. And it was back in 2015, before the Wokening. But it was the same kind of thing where you were like, guys, this is not a big deal. And all the white people were like she can't come to Duke. Guys, this is not a big deal.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 59:45
And all the white people were like she can't come to Duke.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 59:52
I mean I, I think I think maybe I have a, I have a particular bias. I mean we were told, talk we. I don't think we've done a lot of episodes on racism. I I feel like I've been enormously been um privileged by living in New York.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:00:01
Um things did change when I was living in North Carolina and there was COVID and you know like the, the whole Asian racism changed. I think like maybe New Yorkers just were a little nicer. I remember going to Italy for study abroad and man amount of racism towards asians that was a lot that's allowed in europe is staggering. Like I would meet people and they would ask me do I eat dog? That'd be like number two question um, I've had people go like at me oh my god.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:00:44
Like you know, I I've heard my italian roommate I heard my italian roommate talking to my other roommate about how disgusting it is that more chinese people are moving to italy and starting dirty, disgusting chinese restaurants. And I was sitting there and they were like oh, I forgot your Chinese. And I was like okay, like oh.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:01:11
And another thing was that in my class, in my Italian class, two racist moments one time, um, they were teaching like idioms, Italian idioms, and they were saying like, uh, an idiom is like just like bread, which meant this is so good Cause it's just like bread. And I was like I don't get it. Like, just like bread, there's other good things. And they were like, would you understand better if it was about rice? Racist moment Number two is when we were like drawing something on the board and we're all picking markers and I picked the red one and they went red for the chinese one.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:01:58
I don't know how this turned into a rant about me and my, my moments of racism but, but, but I think, I think, think that America has a really interesting stance on like racism and Asians and it's been kind of like a moving target. I definitely know that there is some, but I'm going to tell you guys, I've had wild amounts of racism in other countries?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:02:23
I don't know.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02:24
I'm not that mad about Ciara I think she was dumb. I think it was a not nice thing to say. However, you know like, and I think Ulyssia had the n-word on her Instagram which yeah, whoa well? Yeah, you know, I don't know.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:02:44
I don't know that's my opinion.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02:46
I feel like I feel like we can do a better job of having people apologize and repent and not go so hard on the cancel culture.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:02:56
I mean that's the thing, Like I don't know. I mean, you know, like my, like Alice, like I'd be interested to hear how offended she would be by that. I bet she'd be pretty pissed off. It's not really for me to say how offensive it is, because it's it's not a word I've heard in like 50 years.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:03:15
That's why it's so weird. I guess I know I mean, have you heard it?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:03:18
It's just, it seems kind of retrograde or something. It's not since Italy, you know yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:03:23
Not since Italy, you know. Yeah, if Kung Flu was still circulating, that I feel like at by our president that was more offensive.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:03:33
I did not know that was something that he said, oh yeah, publicly. The Kung Flu was COVID. That's so emblematic of his style, like it's so childish he's not canceled. It's kind of funny I mean, I mean it is kind of funny, it's like a funny right, but it's like part of what's funny is how immature it is. Yeah, it's kung fu even. No, that is chinese, isn't it okay?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:04:05
yeah, okay well, so we're ending on the note of don't be racist against asians, oh my god, okay, all right, let's do it. Just a few minutes for this I look, I liked the arc.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:04:17
I didn't totally buy the arc, um, mainly because it seemed like once they got together, all they talked about was how did we not see the signs? I was like, were there signs? I don't remember thinking they had chemistry early on, but maybe I was just distracted or not paying enough attention. And then, yeah, I'm like I think it would be beautiful if they then went on and dated, and I hope that's what's happening. But I wasn't like, oh yeah, these two people finally, you know, like they've just been so blind to each other and now the connection is unbelievably obvious. I don't know, I was like it could be, you know, I just couldn't tell it just is a little bit more clear that they were together out of convenience.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:05:06
They seem to be friends, they seem to like each other. They tried kissing and then she turned to sierra and was like I'm sorry there were no sparks. Um, we did it because we have to be coupled up, because we're both rejected and then at the end there was all these like mysterious notes from fans about how we all wanted this coupling.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:05:27
I'm like fans or producers Because like are they trying to pull an Amaya here where it's like America wants this? But I think they were nice people. I like watching both of them. Nick and Alandria were just like. Seemed to be really lovely.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:05:47
Like I'm rooting for them as human beings. Yeah, they were both great. Their friendship's great. If they are truly together, that's great. It just wasn't obvious to me that it was real and it did seem very convenient.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:05:58
It looked like a bet because there have been some Love Island UKs where at the end, like some of the top four, have been like friend couples, where they just were best friends and they were like we're not romantically involved. Maybe America will vote for us as a friend couple and that never really worked. I mean, they got like second place or something like that, but like maybe they were just betting, like we got to make this look like a romance story because this yeah. You know, let's, let's, let's shoot our shot here.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:06:27
Okay, what's your bet? Will Pepe pick Iris or Hannah now that he's back out in the wild, or neither?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:06:33
Neither Can you imagine how many DMs that guy has, including probably us, even though we're like wifed up. I mean, are you kidding? That guy could pick from literally anything. Maybe we'll see some salacious rumor about maybe we could start it here some salacious rumor about how Pepe was seen leaving the house of Hannah in the morning. Maybe we'll see something like that.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:07:05
but I'm also interested in whether Hannah would go for Charlie or Pepe. Ooh, I see her with Charlie a lot more, but we also whatever. I mean we got their big emotional goodbye.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:07:17
I guess she and Pepe have one too, and then, you know, will Nick go back to Sierra? It doesn't seem like it, cause I saw some reel where she was like when you get this was so immature she's like people asking me how I'm doing. Well, I flew to Mykonos after getting the villain edit on national TV and getting dumped by my boyfriend, who liked my, who actually liked my best friend, or something like that. I'm like I don't know that you got the villain edit. I thought you got a pretty good edit. You, I don't know that you got the villain at it. I thought you got a pretty good at it, you just did it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:07:45
She got no way. Yeah, she got a good edit all the way, and then they then they just pretended that she didn't exist. You know they just like whoops, right. You know it's interesting. It's interesting to think about, like love Island, how they have to probably edit as they go versus, versus and then, and then the story plays out versus the bachelor where you guys were. You know, like your, for example, your story was highly minimized just because, like you left early, like how different your entire show would have been. And have you gone one more week, right, yeah?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:08:19
so it's interesting, like they can't they can't retrospectively make someone a villain.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:08:24
Right right. Yeah, I don't know. I thought I had another fun thing to say, but maybe I don't, pepe, call me. I'm not married yet. You can also call Kibbe, she's married, but we'll probably reconsider.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:08:46
I think, alex, I think my husband would actually go for it. I think he'd be like let's, let's, let's open the doors here to our marriage. You know, we were all into Pepe.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:08:58
Jason would not. And, um, if you liked our recap, please give us five stars and we'll see you next week. By accessing this podcast, I acknowledge that the hosts of this podcast make no warranty, guarantee or representation as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the information featured in this podcast. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is Thank you, advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be considered or used as a substitute for the independent professional judgment, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a duly licensed and qualified healthcare provider. In case of a medical emergency, you should immediately call 911. The hosts do not endorse, approve, recommend or certify any information, product, process, service or organization presented or mentioned in this podcast, and information from this podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement.
