Ep. 189-How to Set Healthy Boundaries in High-Conflict Relationships

This episode talks about setting healthy boundaries in high-conflict relationships with people who have intense, dysregulated emotions.

If you're in an emotionally charged or high-conflict relationship, you struggle to say "no" or assert yourself. If you’ve ever felt blindsided, criticized, or powerless in high-conflict moments with loved ones, this episode reveals the proven framework that transforms chaos into clarity. Dr. Kibby talks about common mistakes with setting boundaries that make things even worse. Because boundaries are essential for healthy relationships, she shares the secret sauce from Dialectical Behavior Therapy and clinical science to set boundaries that stick without escalating fights. You’ll learn how to communicate precisely, protect your autonomy, and foster genuine connection even when emotions run high.

Plus, she shares real-life examples (like managing rage outbursts from loved ones with trauma or mental health challenges) and how to respond without losing your mind or your heart. Whether you’re navigating family drama, a difficult partner, or teen conflicts, mastering these boundary skills can prevent burnout and create healthier, more resilient relationships. Tune in and learn how to turn high-conflict moments into opportunities for growth and mutual understanding.

Resources:

• If you need more hands-on help with setting boundaries in your high-conflict relationships, check out ⁠KulaMind

‍ ‍

• Transcript

  Kibby McMahon (00:00)

  Hey, little helpers. Today I'm gonna be talking about how to set healthy boundaries in an emotionally intense relationships with a lot of conflict. So the reason why I'm talking about this, I love talking about boundaries. I've done it before on this podcast. ⁓ But I'm hearing a lot of people who are in relationships like, you know, this is your partner or your child or sibling who

  Emotions run high and conflict is intense and maybe they tend to explode and get upset and they get triggered and then you you kind of feel like blindsided, right? You feel like you're kind of taken in. You went through a storm and you want to help that person. You want to support them and know that they're struggling, but at the same time, they're really hurting your feelings and

  I'm hearing that it's really, really hard to know what to do in that moment because you want to say, that's like, stop doing that, but at the same time, nervous about, you know, making them feel hurt or invalidated or making things worse. So I'm to be talking about how to set boundaries in high conflict relationships, but really with people with anger issues and tend to explode and have big meltdowns and outbursts. So it was like, how can you actually

  ⁓ Say no to something like that. How do you actually you know in moments where it can seem so out of control What do you do? How do you how do you? Be there and be supportive, but also say hey, no, this is not okay right like I Get that you're angry, but you know the way you're lashing out at me is not alright So this is how it's setting boundaries around rage

  For example, the common situation I hear is,

  A mother or a partner of someone with borderline personality disorder, let's say, who has trouble managing their intense emotions, especially anger, ⁓ they know that that person, that loved one, struggles with that, right? They know that they feel overwhelmed by their own emotions. They don't know what to do. They get really upset and they just like say hurtful stuff in the moment, in the heat of moment and sometimes in arguments, right? And... ⁓

  it's always really tough because ⁓ that mom or that partner is kind of taken to like freezes in that moment and goes like, my God, that was so awful. That was so hurtful. I don't know what to do to stop it. don't know how to make them feel better. And then also like, that didn't really feel good. And especially if that person has any kind of trauma or, you know, is really struggling, it's really tough to know how to...

  say, hey, I'm here to be your support. I want to understand your emotions and the way you feel, and I want you to be comfortable expressing it. And at the same time when you do, it's like World War III. It feels like I would just, you know, like stepped in a landmine. And then people leave, know, loved ones in those positions would say like,

  I either feel like I have to take it and I have to say, I have to apologize for all this stuff and just keep the peace, stay quiet, like take all the blame just to make them happy or I scream back and I'm out of there. So a lot of these high conflict and anger, types of anger expression can be really damaging and it's hard to know what to do to stop it. So I'm gonna talk about what are the boundaries that you can set.

  in your high conflict relationships and be like, this is not how we're gonna talk about these things or this particular way of expressing your feelings is like not cool anymore. ⁓ But first I'm gonna talk about why boundaries are important because especially when you have a loved one who's like emotionally dysregulated or has, you know, is very emotionally sensitive or, ⁓ you know, especially sensitive to rejection.

  I think that the difficulty is knowing how close you should be. Like how in control of your own relationship do you feel? ⁓ I often hear that there's almost kind of like this co-dependency dynamic where with a loved one who's struggling, you're like really attentive to their emotions. Like you talk about everything.

  all these emotions are exploding, you're yelling, you're crying, you know, it's all these different kinds of like whirlwind and rollercoaster of emotions. And you feel like you're in it and overtaken by it and consumed by it and have to deal with all these fights and exhausted by it. So it's like full enmeshment of you are like your day-to-day life is determined by their mood or the opposite. Then it's like,

  I'm really, can't do this anymore. I have to take space. I'm cutting off this relationship and I'm out. So what I hear is a swing between like an all or nothing, I'm in it, I'm in the emotions with them, everything is intense or I leave the situation and there's a cutoff. But healthy boundaries and healthy relationships are neither one of those, right? Having a healthy boundary means that you're not

  flipping back and forth between being super close and emotionally connected no matter what or totally ⁓ cut off or separated. So healthy boundaries is really essential for a healthy relationship, right? There's a thing called boundary health where the idea is, this is in the Bowen Family Systems research where boundary health is this understanding that

  A healthy family system is connected. You belong to a group. You belong to this community of family. ⁓ You support each other. You love each other and care for each other. And you also have a differentiated sense of self. So you feel like your own person within the system. And healthy boundaries is what makes that possible for you to feel connected, but also to feel like,

  like I have a separation between me and someone else, or there is a choice of how I can respond and how close or far that I need to be in the situation. So, ⁓ this is also keeping in mind that secure attachment, right? In the attachment literature, it's always this balance of closeness and distance. A healthy relationship means that, you know, especially with attachment figure that they're there,

  when you're scared or need help, you could go to them, they're close by, you feel trust, you feel like they have your back. And also there is freedom to explore and go away from it and having your own sense of self and own sense of independence from the relationship. So even in all of the different theories of relationships and family, there really is this emphasis on what is this healthy balance between connected and being close.

  and independence and having your own distance and freedom. So even just that mindset shift of knowing that boundaries is a really important piece of healthy relationships. Now, I do hear all sorts of stuff about what boundaries means and usually I'm hearing like there's a lot of misinformation about boundaries. like I...

  I'm seeing online all the time and especially on social media that people say you need to have healthy boundaries. need to have, you like you set your boundaries and stick to them. They're, whatever. But when you really get down to what they think boundaries are, a lot of people think that boundaries are like telling someone you don't like something or saying no to something they're doing. Trying to get them, trying to get someone else to stop what they're doing.

  Right? So like I'm hearing boundaries is like, ⁓ yeah, I don't like the way you talk to me. That's my boundary. Or I'm not going to I'm not going to put up with this relationship, a relationship like this. ⁓ That's actually closer to a boundary, but ⁓ it focuses more on avoiding and saying no and cutting something off than it does ⁓ have this idea of making a good

  balance of closeness and distance. So I just hear that a lot of people think that boundaries are almost like criticisms on other people, but that is exactly where mistakes are made and people get it wrong. So I want to talk first about the different ways that people really mess up setting boundaries. And then I will go into talking about what

  would be a healthy boundary and how to use the dear man skill from DBT to set that healthy boundary, especially when you're dealing with high emotions, high conflict, and sometimes like violence or abuse, right? So if you wanna set boundaries in that kind of dynamic, here are things to think about. the three common mistakes that I see people

  make when they're trying to set a boundary with a loved one around like how they fight or how they express their emotions are these three things. One is they basically just attack or criticize. Two is that they're over controlling. Three is that the boundary is really vague, right? So what I'll explain each part. So

  It's always so funny working with clients and they say, yeah, I try to set boundaries, but that person just just lashed out at me and didn't even listen. ⁓ you know, they kept doing, they kept, you know, misbehaving, they kept hurting me. And then I will ask like, what, what did you say? What were the boundaries that you set? And they'll show me and it'll say something like, you know, I'm done. You're just.

  being an asshole, like you're unreasonable. I will only talk to you if you finally learn how to respect me. And I'm like, I totally get where you're coming from. Especially if those boundaries like that is set to he in the moment, it can really lean into a lot of ⁓ blame, right? It could lead to a lot of like.

  character attacks, right? Like, you are this way, you always do this, right? So, kind of like putting the blame and criticism on that other person. And they're like, look, I set the boundary. I voiced and expressed what I didn't like. And then they're really shocked and upset when the other person gets defensive. And that's a really big thing to always remember that if you go on an attack, like if you criticize someone's character especially,

  ⁓ They are going to defend themselves. That is going to be their natural response is to you know Basically say to defend their their own dignity, right? They're gonna be like no, that's not true and and then the focus is gonna be so much on them and like they're gonna focus on themselves and protecting themselves ⁓ and can't really hear about what you need, right? So it's a really like attacking someone or just criticizing. We'll just like

  Polarize people

  So the general character attack or criticism ⁓ is really not the way to set a boundary. And I see that blow up all the time where that escalates fights, right? The second mistake that I see often is actually really interesting because it could be really subtle, but makes an otherwise reasonable boundary totally fall flat. And that is trying to control the other person.

  and their choices and their behaviors.

  often that commonly looks like, stop doing this, stop yelling at me, you can't talk to me that way. ⁓ I'm not gonna do this and like, if you're gonna be this awful, right? So it's all focused on what that other person should do. And then ⁓ sometimes adds things that will make that person ⁓ feel forced to do that thing, to really...

  you know, like change their behavior based on what that person wants. I'll give an example from my own life that I, know, that where I was like probably my most ineffective or, you know, my least effective. So my last marriage, which I talked about before, really, it was a really hard relationship for me because he was struggling with burnout and anxiety and

  He ⁓ moved into my house and did not get a job right away and for a really long time, for like most of four years that we were together, he wasn't working, he was just hanging out in the house. That was a really big point of contention, right? I would not say anything for a while and then I would confront him and then we would get into like a really big fight about it. And I know this is not a situation where like I'm saying, I'm talking about the...

  boundaries I'm setting around someone else expressing their anger, it was actually me expressing that anger. So I'll just fully lean into that. I was the more explosive one in that equation. what I really wanted was a partner. I really was ready at the time. It was like when I was 30, I think we got together when I was 30 or something like that, when I was 30. And I was like, okay, I'm ready to start a family and have kids. And I really want a...

  partner who can share that responsibility. Like I personally didn't see myself as ⁓ someone who wanted ⁓ really specific roles in a relationship or family. Like I didn't want to just only be the breadwinner. didn't want to only be the mom, stay at home mom. I a blend of things that I wanted to feel like a partner was like equally contributing in some way, right? That we split the emotional labor, so to speak.

  And ⁓ when I first got together with my ex, he was like, of course I will. I'm going to get a job and I'm going to, you know, I'm really responsible. So I was like, okay, sure. And then when he moved in, he just didn't work. ⁓ He wanted to take some time and think about things, but that just ended up being months and months of being in my basement smoking weed. So I was like,

  I mean, there were so many different boundaries that I wanted to set. And I think if I'm looking back, was like, the thing that I really wanted was to feel that he's contributing or that he's making an effort, right? But then what I was, what was really bothering me was that I was doing everything around the house. I was like paying the bills. I was getting the food all the time. was, yeah, I was like.

  Especially it was when I was doing my masters in my PhD program. So I was like super busy at work and then I was doing everything for the home. And at that point, like I didn't know what boundary I should have set. But what I did wrong was the over controlling part. Like I would get into the conversation like, have you applied for a job yet? What's going on with the job situation? And we would get into a fight and I was like,

  I mean, you gotta just get something, you gotta apply. So I was, my boundary, trying to get my needs, but was telling him what to do and getting really upset about it. And that was so ineffective because it was just, and I see this all the time, and especially people I talk to through KulaMind . Oh, by the way, if you...

  have someone in your life who is emotionally dysregulated or you're struggling with them in a high conflict relationship and you want help, check out KulaMind , which is the program that I have to support people who have loved ones who are struggling mental health and addiction. So check it out, K-U-L-A-M-I-N-D.com, KulaMind . in KulaMind , when I talk to people about boundaries, and it's on top of my mind, because this week,

  we learned how to identify and set boundaries. ⁓ But, and I said, like, what kind of boundaries do you want to set? Like, where do you see that you need some more boundaries? And I always hear people talk about the other person, right? Like what they're doing and they got to just take more responsibility and they got to get into treatment and they got to stop yelling at me and stop treating me this way and get out of my house. And I'm like,

  Fair, right? I've been there myself. I know what it's like to just be like, if you just did this one simple thing, everything will be better. We wouldn't be fighting so much. Or if you just handled your emotions differently, like it would be a little bit better, right? So a lot of people focus on what they want the other person to do and they ignore what they should be doing. I'll get to that in a minute about like what is actually a healthy boundary, but.

  The focus on trying to make someone do something that you want is the biggest mistake I see in setting boundaries.

  part of that mistake is saying, okay, I'm gonna tell you what to do, what I want you to do, and then I'm gonna make you wanna do it.

  Right? So it's like coercive. And what that looks like, it's tricky because I know that people don't necessarily mean to do this. But if they, if let's say you have a partner who's like screaming at you all the time, ⁓ hurting your feelings, saying things that are really disrespectful. And you say, I'm going to set a boundary by saying, ⁓ you better stop yelling at me. Otherwise I'm going to take the kids and leave. All right.

  So again, totally, totally validate and understand why someone would be in that position, right? There's just sometimes a point where you're just like, I'm done. I'm done dealing with this abuse. I'm done dealing with this crap. I am out of here, right? And I got to tell that person, you know, what their sacrifice and like what they're losing by this. That part, like the whole thinking behind it, you know, it makes sense to me.

  What is really tricky though, is that especially if it's said in the heat of the moment during a fight, like when that person is screaming or when you're going back and forth and you say, if you keep doing this, I'm out of here, right?

  The problem is that threats and ultimatums use fear to try to get that person to do what you want, to get them to comply with your demands, right, of like things that they should do differently.

  And I mean, especially when you feel like you're in survival mode. Like I'm talking also about times when a person is being like very verbally abusive, like rage texting you or screaming at you. And you're like, you know, if you keep doing this, I'm at, I'm gone. I'll never talk to you again. That could be your way of standing up for yourself. However, ⁓

  you might be using that or like people might be using that in order to scare them into ⁓ changing their behavior, to like stop yelling, right? Often, like you can really tell if that's what's happening if you go, okay, did you really mean it? Were you really gonna leave and...

  the person goes, no, didn't really mean it at the time. I just wanted this to be done. Like I just wanted them to stop yelling at me. ⁓ And it could work in the short term, right? You could definitely scare someone into doing what you want, right? Like if you keep acting like this, like you're gonna lose everything, right? That's just like, you know, actually pretty honest and very clear about.

  Here are the consequences of your actions. But the problem with that is you might get short-term compliance. They might stop yelling in the moment. They might behave for a little bit. They might be on best behavior out of fear of that threat, losing you or whatever you threatened or set the ultimatum for. That works in the short term, but in the long term, it creates more resentment and sometimes a rebound effect of

  where they will rebel against it and be like, I'm upset that you basically made me do something by scaring me, by threatening to take something really important away from me or threatening harm to me. So that just sometimes will, sometimes like the threats will bring up like a ⁓ vengeance ⁓ urge, like ⁓ a desire to.

  stand up for yourself and take vengeance. So you might wanna get out of like the, I'm gonna threaten them to stop doing something. that's the second, in general, that's the second biggest mistake is people think of boundaries as, I gotta get someone else to do something different. I gotta get them to change. The third biggest mistake I see is ⁓ when people set boundaries really vaguely, right? They set really,

  vague, confusing, subjective boundaries. They're really opaque. It's really hard to tell what it really means. It might be obvious to you, very clear to you, but I think you'd be surprised by how much different people might have completely different interpretations of the same thing. Even people that you know very well and you're very close to and you have a lot of shared experiences.

  could be a lot of differences in how you see things. For example, when it came to my ex, and to my credit, I did have specific asks. I had specific requests that he get a job or do some things around the house, but I probably threw out a lot of...

  vague requests, vague boundaries that were just like a more emotionally laden, right? There was just like more emotional terms, like, I wish you cared more. I just need you to care more. I just need you to show up more. I need you to contribute and make an effort and really try to be my partner, to be a partner in this. Again, totally valid when I look back, that is what I wanted. And often when you talk about boundaries, like sometimes you think about like,

  the bigger picture, the gist or the emotional impact and you're like, hey, I want you to just care more. I want you to be respectful. The problem with that is that people might have different definitions of what that looks like, right? So if I say to someone, hey, you know, when you get angry and you yell at me, like that's awful and I need you to be more respectful.

  For you, you might have a really clear, and you might not, but you might have some assumptions about what that looks like, what being respectful looks like when you're angry, right? Maybe that means not cursing, maybe that means ⁓ not doing character attacks, maybe that means like ⁓ sharing your feelings and opinions and letting the other person share their feelings and opinions, not yelling, right? So you might say in your mind, like, if I'm asking someone to be respectful,

  It's obvious, like it's so simple. They should know what being respectful looks like, but the other person might not, right? The other person might have a slightly different perspective of what respectful means, or they might intend to be respectful. They might intend to do the thing that you're asking for, but it comes out differently to you. And I see this all the time with couples. This is like a big problem with couples is that one person

  Like you're having back and forth, they're going about their routine or they're expressing to each other and one person feels, one person in the couple feels that like I don't feel cared for. When you, you you not, you know, calling me or texting me or planning dates for me or, you know, wanting to spend, calling each time with me, I feel uncared for and unloved. I feel rejected. So a lot of the arguments and the heat of the moment.

  It's like, I'm gonna set a boundary around this dynamic and I'm gonna say, you know, gotta stop doing this. You gotta, you know, show me you care. And then the other person is like, I am, or I'm trying, or this is how I express care. And it might look totally different than what the other person has in mind. And I see a lot of these problems when people aren't aware of what that actually looks like, you know, what actually.

  Concretely, it looks like in real life to show someone let's say that you were being respectful or that you care or that you know Whatever that you show up or something like that. So ⁓ these really vague subjective ⁓ asks are really terrible boundaries because it it just It doesn't Really specify like what does that even what does that really look like in practice? What is what what do I have in mind? What?

  expecting here. ⁓ So those are the three biggest mistakes I see when people are in an emotionally intense relationship with, you know, like a family member or a partner and then they try to set boundaries and then it just goes horribly that they just attack and say mean things. ⁓ They try to control the other person, especially through threats or ultimatums and they're very vague with what they want.

  So those are the biggest mistakes. I see it all different ways where people are trying to use pressure and guilt trips or ⁓ monitoring and watching your loved one. I think that the biggest issue is that when you're thinking about setting boundaries, boundaries should protect your autonomy and independence in relationship. But sometimes people go about it like,

  that means I want to get more control over your behavior. there's, you know, lot of people do guilt trips or pressure, like, you you've got to do this otherwise, like how could, you know, how could you live with yourself? Or ⁓ I want full access to like, I want a set of boundary around your, how you interact with the opposite sex. So I'm going to like check your phone all the time, right? So, so,

  People sometimes go about it like I feel out of control or this dynamic. I don't I feel Like I don't have agency in this relationship So I'm going to take over the power I'm gonna take over the agency by telling you what to do and telling you to stop doing something ⁓ And That really works because these kind of boundaries that are critical and if we're controlling and vague

  they lead to a lot of shutting down in relationships and sometimes a demand withdrawal dynamic. So in my last relationship when I was making these ineffective boundaries, so setting these ineffective boundaries and making these like bad requests, what it would look like was I was angry and I was like, you need to get a job. It wasn't really about getting a job. It was really about like,

  share of responsibility, but I was like, you know, gotta get a job, you gotta do something. And then he would be like, okay, okay, okay, but he would withdraw more, right? He would be more secretive. it, you know, but everything kind of blew up when I found out that he had told me that he was applying for jobs or applying for his license to practice where we were living, but he actually didn't. And so he kind of complied with my demands by lying.

  And that's something that really happens a lot when you deal with this like demand-withdraw cycle where you're demanding and you're asking for things and they're avoiding and they're pulling back and pulling away or rebelling against it. And so then the other person, like the demander keeps demanding more and more and more and more, right? So this is just a recipe for disaster. And it's like placing those boundaries in a really ineffective way where it's also like, okay, I'm like,

  we're all gonna do what we want and be autonomous and independent, but we're gonna do it by lying to each other or hiding what we're actually doing. So ⁓ I see that, you I totally regret it, but that's one way that these boundaries can totally fall flat is that it creates this like chase and that other person who is withdrawing has to hide in secrecy. Another way that

  ineffective boundaries like totally fall flat is when it could lead to a lot of conversation about emotions ⁓ or discussions about an argument, but there's no actual solution, right? It's like, good, we talked about it. We talked about how the way you treated me really hurt me and this is what I was upset about and the other, know, like.

  And those are good, right? I'm not saying that like, talking about your feelings is bad, but sometimes it could go into this level of vagueness where it's like, we're talking about emotions where are really like feeling this intense connection sometimes, whether it's like good or bad, like fighting or like making up and talking. And you're like feeling emotionally connected in some way, but you're almost kind of like wallowing in the emotions, right?

  You keep saying over and over how this hurt you and they're doing the same and you're really coming to an understanding. But then there is no change after that. There's no solution, right? So sometimes it's almost like co-rumination of talking about feelings and it feels productive, but then you're not taking that final step of, what do we do about that? How can we change the way we do things next time? ⁓ And there's gotta be equal. There's gotta be some equal like,

  You own your part, your 50%, and I own my part. ⁓ And ⁓ so just, you know, and recognizing that within a dynamic, within two people, it's 50-50, right? It is like you play a role and they play a role.

  So what do we actually do about setting boundaries? What does a healthy boundary look like? And taking the opposite of the mistakes, right? Attacking the other person's character or criticizing, trying to control them or being really vague. You want to do the opposite, which is being behaviorally specific, not forcing someone and respecting their autonomy and being so clear that the other person can understand what you're asking for.

  going I'll break down each one but the first one being behaviorally specific that is a trick that I really like is if you have a problem with someone right like they they've yelled at you you you've had a fight about it and you're like I hate that that person did that right obviously ⁓ you

  You know, could be focused on, are such a jerk and they do this and they're so, and they just need to change in order for me to be happy. people's defenses will always go up if you right off the bat say, you know, point out you as the problem, like you're the problem. You need help, you need to go to therapy. You are, you know, the issue is with you. You are, you know.

  you're lashing out at me and you're being crazy and blah, blah, right? People automatically will defend themselves and then you're lost, right? You can't even like figure out a solution or how to change anything or set a boundary because they're like fully in defense mode, naturally, right? Especially if people with like BPD or trauma and they have a lot of shame, right? They're gonna wall off. ⁓ But instead of talking about it like you are the problem, talking about it like the problem is the problem, the behaviors are the problem.

  the dynamic that we ⁓ have, like the back and forth that we have is the problem. So you're almost picturing that instead of like you looking at someone and being like, you are the problem, that you're trying to sit next to each other looking at the problem together, right? So the problem is the dynamic. It's the way you talk to each other. It's the way you fight. It's... ⁓

  how you both manage intense emotions and express them to each other. That is the problem, not you or me. Because then it just gets into the battle of me or you, right? Like who wins? Who wins and who loses being the one in the wrong, right? So it's like, no, the dynamic is the wrong. So being specific is talking about, this thing that we're doing is a problem. And not like, you know.

  or sex jerks to each other, but something really specific, like the way we curse at each other, the way we get physically violent, the way we raise our voices in front of the kids, that is the problem, right? So, that's behaviorally specific. Low in coercion. ⁓ So, I mean, all kind of goes back to, I think of self-determination theory in psychology.

  And self-determination theory says that people have three core basic needs. One is belongingness, feeling like you're connected to other people, you're part of a community, you relate to someone else. ⁓ The other is competence, feeling like you have skills and you have power and control over your world and your life. And three is autonomy.

  feeling like you have your own independence and your own freedom of choice, that you're an individual. So kind of like in the family systems ⁓ theories where it's this healthy relationship or healthy way of being is to feel connected and close and also your own person. So when you're setting a boundary or even thinking about boundaries, you have to think about that you and that other person

  equal, should have equal right to choose. You both are, have equal power, you both can make decisions, you know, might not always agree with each other's decisions, ⁓ but you both have a choice. And if you already feel like that's not possible, that it's either their way or the highway or your way of the highway, then you're kind of lost anyway, right? Then it's just, it's not really setting a boundary, it's just like...

  managing someone, controlling someone, and that's a totally different dynamic. But you want to promote that both you and the other person have a right to choose, that you're both independent people and want to stay connected. And so a boundary is really negotiating how that's possible. So even picturing that that other person is free to make their own choices.

  you can make it clear what you're looking for and what you expect and hope for, but they have the right to say no. They have a right to not do that.

  And where I see people getting stuck is that if I say, you know, yeah, you really want your daughter to get therapy because she's screaming, she's acting out, she's, you know, being verbally abusive, rage texting you, you really want her to get therapy.

  but you also have to accept that she might not, that she might, she has a right to choose what kind of treatment or what kind of help that she wants. And if she doesn't want to go to the therapist that you picked out, like.

  What do you think of that? What do you think of the fact that you can choose? And people just sometimes will be silent. it's almost like, you know, I can't go on like this. This situation is unsustainable. It's burning me out. It's terrible. ⁓ They got to get treatment. Otherwise, everything is a disaster. And I think it is a really tough place to just be hanging on to one outcome, right? Like, they got to change.

  and not even open up the possibility that that person can choose to do something different, right? And you're like, what about people who like really are, you know, are not safe or not safe for you or someone else and, you know, their choices, like I need to make them go to therapy. I need to make them do that. Well, then you got a built in like, okay, what is it that I actually want?

  what is it that is important to me? And then respect that that person might show up for that or respond to that in a way that might not, protects their individuality, right? So it's like, if I want them to stop screaming at me and I'm focusing on, they better go into treatment or else I'm never speaking to them again. Well, you could think about what do you want out of that? Like what?

  Is there a way to negotiate? Is there a way that they can show up or speak to you in a way that you would prefer that would be healthier with or without therapy? So understanding that they might find their own path there. They might find their own way of coming to the resolution with you besides for your means that end, your pathway to like, we can connect if they change in this way. So really seeing

  the other person as, you know, respecting their autonomy, respecting that they have a right to choose. Tricky when it's a younger kid, but, or someone who's like, has disabilities or is compromised in some way by drug use or ⁓ their mental health or any other reason where it's like autonomy is tricky. Like.

  someone who is so out of control over their drinking that, you know, can you really, I mean, it's difficult to say, I trust, I just have to accept and trust that they are, they can make their own choices, right? But once you do that, once you actually have that attitude in you, it comes across to that other person and they don't.

  it will make them less defensive, right? Like think about any time you felt like someone has come up to you with an agenda and wants to make you do something that they want, you automatically are gonna defend yourself, right? You're automatically going to protect your autonomy ⁓ and just not even, the whole point of what they're saying is lost. So think about that or like people who've respected you as an individual person who can make their own choices that, they have,

  you have your own agency, think about how differently that feels. It doesn't even matter what they say, but just how they approach you with that sense of respect. And then the third thing is, the third principles of a head-to-head healthy boundary is ⁓ don't be vague, right? Don't make assumptions. ⁓ The worst is if people go, they should know what I want.

  It's obvious what I really need them to do and they're not doing it. Or I hate that I have to tell people all the time. I can't believe I have to repeat over and over what I want and what I'm looking for and what I value, what I care about. I shouldn't have to say it. They should just know and do it. It's like, no, people aren't mind readers. And the beauty about partnership and belonging with other people is that we have a diversity of experiences.

  the way I show care might be completely different the way you show care. And it helps for me to know how you receive care, but like, I'm gonna have a different perspective on the situation, right? So when you set a boundary, try to think to yourself, like, what do I actually want? If I were to ask for someone to do something to make a change?

  to do something more, do something differently, do something less, like what would that actually look like? And what would that look like outside of us? Like if we're to watch a movie of us from before boundary and after boundary, you know, when you're not respecting the boundary, you're respecting the boundary, like what would that actually look like? What would I see in that movie?

  Like what would people be doing differently? Like try to get outside of your head in that way. Which I know that it's tough because when people set boundaries, it does have a little bit more of this like emotional relational piece of I just want you to like hear me. I just want you to care more about me. I want you to show up for me or value me, right? Pay attention to me. ⁓ Even paying attention, like that seems really clear.

  But it might not always seem clear. Like one person's paying attention and feeling like someone's attending to them could be ⁓ giving me gifts, like taking me out, like thinking about what kind of activities that I want to do. But their attention might just be like, I just think about you all the time. So it's just like a different way. People have different ways of living up to different values and principles and making choices.

  ⁓ really going down to the basics and saying like, let's take out all our assumptions. Let's pretend like we're aliens to each other and let's really think about what changes that we have to make that we both can agree are happening. That we both, if we were to say, yep, you are bringing dinner home tonight, like does it happen or not? And you could say yes or no, right? So being really, really clear. That in of itself, like that principle is.

  like one of the core pieces of couples therapy and family therapy. There's so much miscommunication over what was said, what was done, and what people want from each other and how they connect. And even just, there's just so much, so much healing that could be done by just being really clear, like what are we doing differently? What are we gonna do? What is it gonna look like? How do we know? If I ask you to care more about me,

  or have more respect for me, what would that look like? How will we both know that that change is happening? So that's a huge skill and a huge step to really think about practically like what are these boundaries looking like?

  So a simple framework for setting a healthy boundary that has all these principles is DEARMAN , which is an interpersonal effectiveness skill from dialectical behavior therapy. It's one of my favorite skills because it's so clear and so simple and ⁓ is really effective. can completely change the way people assert themselves or...

  ask for what they want in a relationship. So that's really what it's for. It's like asking for something, like being assertive. You could also use it to say no to something, but I found it, I find that it's just way more effective to when you're setting a boundary to actually ask for something instead of saying no to something. So what this looks like is, dear man, and we'll just do the dear, but the dear is an acronym for describe, express,

  assert and reinforce. These are all pieces of one statement that you would make to set a boundary. So even thinking about what a boundary is, I'm saying that a boundary is a guideline for how you will behave differently to things that they do, right? If your boundary is, and I'll just use this example, if your boundary is, I hate when someone

  calls me names. I hate it when, you know, let's say my partner, that's it, my husband's really kind, but if you have a partner who, when he gets really mad, like screams at you and calls you names and belittles you, right? And you're like, that's my boundary. just, makes me feel bad. It makes me feel resentful and this has got to stop, right? So instead of like, you know, attacking or criticizing or whatever, it is...

  It is paying attention to, okay, what do I actually want here?

  And then how can I actually the dear man framework would give you a way to frame it in your mind and actually be able to communicate it to that person or you just follow through but The difference there the the boundary that guideline will look like this Okay in my mind if you can think of if then statements like if He screams at me and calls me names Calls me the c-word. Let's say I'm gonna do something different

  I'm going to walk away. I'm going to call someone. I'm gonna stop the conversation, right? Like that is how I'm gonna react differently if this, you know, this boundaries cross. Or, but if we, if he doesn't call me names and speaks to me calmly, ⁓ respectfully, right? Respectfully, but like really specifically doesn't call me names, right? Doesn't, doesn't attack me and call me something like the C word.

  then I will continue the conversation. So the focus, instead of saying, he needs to stop calling me names, it's, okay, let's just picture that that person has their own choices in life and they can choose to call me names or they could choose not to. They have freedom of choice. Obviously I have opinions about which one's better, but they could choose whatever they want and I'm gonna do something differently based on what happens. It's kind of like this, like if the weather,

  is, you know, like I might make different decisions on how I go outside or, you know, what I do depending on the weather, right? I can't control the weather. I would love it if it were sunny, but if it's raining, I'm not going outside. If it's sunny, I will go outside, right? So it's a more focus on like, you know, what is the difference between when I'll go outside or not go outside? And that is really the boundary. It's what I do differently.

  Of course boundaries can change. sometimes people like calling them limits because it means that it's like flexible based on your capacity in the moment, the situation, you know, other things like, yeah, if, if it's warm outside and raining, I'll go outside or if I have a raincoat, I'll go outside. Similarly, like with, with boundaries around arguments, it's like, especially if I'm sick or tired or upset myself, like I have a lower threshold for the

  the arguments and the name calling than other times when I have more distance, more resource. So your boundaries don't have to be set in stone, but it's more of a guideline for you to like, what am I gonna do? And the way you communicate that or think about that is I like to think more about the good, like the what you, thinking about the change that you want, the behavioral specific change you want. So in DEARMAN , D is the describe, describing the problem.

  just the facts, right? And if you can, describing the situation like the problem is our dynamic, not like you were the problem, but you're doing, but the way we're talking to each other when we fight, ⁓ we've been calling each other names or you call me the C word ⁓ and our voices are raised, right? So being so descriptive.

  It's like taking out your opinions, taking out your judgments, taking away the way you feel, and just saying, happened? So you start on the specific, you start on the thing that you both can agree on. I see people make mistakes that they come in with that attack and that vague, like, you are so rude to me and you speak to me in a horrible way. So that's not it, because that adds in all your subjective opinions and that other person can disagree. I wasn't rude, you were rude, right?

  So you start with, hey, the last time we fought, you called me the C word, right? Descriptive. Then E, the next part, that's where you express how you feel, your experience of that, how that landed on you, like the negative impact. That really hurt my feelings. And I've been so upset because of that. Calling me the C word really, really hurts. Really hurts me. Here, don't do...

  assumptions about them don't be like and I think you're doing that because you feel like blah blah blah like Speak only for yourself be like problem how I feel about the problem what the problem made me feel and Then the a is the assert this is where you ask for a very specific clear change, right? ⁓ You say and you ask you don't say you gotta you say it would mean a lot if we

  Next time you're upset, ⁓ you don't call me the C word and just, you know, don't call me names or speak to me in a calm voice and call me by my name. ⁓ But the more specific you are there, the better, right? Not like, you've got to be stop being so rude, but next time we fight or next time we get upset.

  please don't call me the C word, right? Then it would be very clear after that fight if that was a yes or a no, if that worked or not. So being really clear. And then the reinforce, that's where you can say like, okay, if it's sunny, then I go outside, right? The reinforce is like how I'm going to reinforce that. How am I gonna lean in in a good way, in a way that you want, right? So if it's like, it would mean a lot.

  to me if you didn't call me the C word because then I wouldn't get so defensive. This is the R part. I won't get so defensive and we could talk through things so I could really hear you because I really want to understand and hear you. The R is like sweetening the pot. It's like making it clear that if they ⁓ worked with you and made this decision to say yes to your request.

  then this is how you're going to lean in. This is how you're going to engage. This is the good stuff that they're going to get. This is how it benefits the relationship, right? So you're really making it clear why it would be good for them. Not just like, because then I won't hate you so much or because then you'll really, you know, like be the kind of person I think you should be. No, it's like, this is why this would benefit you because I will lean in. Right. So you see that like the D E A R focusing on the

  ⁓ the behavior or the situations you want to see is sometimes like a really effective way of solving a problem, setting boundaries. And what you're really doing is saying no to this other thing, no to you calling me names, but yes to this, you if you speak to me respectfully. Now, you could at this point add to that dear man by saying the opposite, saying the other part of the guideline.

  If you call me the C word, I'm going to walk away because it's going to hurt my feelings too much. So if we talk calmly, don't call me names, I will be there for you. We'll work this out together. If you call me the C word again, I'm going to just pause the conversation until we could talk ⁓ another time. And you could hear that even just saying that outside of the fight or in a non-heated way that

  My approach is you can make the choice. I'm respecting your autonomy and your choice. You can express your feelings however you want. All right, you're going to. You can't control that. But I'm going to respond differently based on if it's safe, if you feel safe or not. In the heat of the moment, was like, if you say the C word one more time, I'm out of there. You'll never speak to me again. That would be using more coercive strategies of like,

  I'm going to scare you into obeying me versus like, hey, let me tell you, if you can choose how to do, like, this is the problem. Here's a solution that I'm suggesting. If you choose to go with my solution, great. Things are going to go well. And if you don't, this is how I'm going to respond differently. And then if the person is really, you know, that's your dear man. That's the dear statement. You can always work with that person. You could just put that out there and then that other person can.

  negotiate and say how they can suggest other solutions and that's a different part.

  That dear statement is how you can set a boundary really clearly and effectively that stays connected, protects your connectedness, but then also honors autonomy.

  Right? Because it's just two people saying, hey, this is not working anymore. This dynamic, this back and forth. So we got to change that back and forth. And this is how I'm proposing to do that. And this is what I think will come out of that. So I would love to hear how those setting boundaries goes. And if you have any questions, please put it in the comments on YouTube or Spotify. And as always, leave us a five star rating. It really helps us. And I hope this was helpful. I love you guys. See you next week.