Ep. 190-Unmasking Manipulation in Toxic Relationships

This episode breaks down what manipulation is and why it's so common in relationships with people struggling with mental health. It also gives actionable strategies for resisting the effects of manipulation.

Have you ever been in a relationship where you found it hard to think for yourself? You somehow make decisions that are out of character and doubt yourself so much, you're not sure what's real? In this episode, Dr. Kibby exposes the truth behind these tactics: what manipulation really is, how it shows up, and most importantly, how to regain control.

Deep dive ahead: you'll discover why manipulation isn’t always "evil," but an abuse of normal strategies for communication and social influence. We're being manipulated all the time by ads, entertainment, sales, and even our health providers. But it becomes harmful when it robs you of your autonomy and sacrifices your wellbeing for the manipulator's gain. Dr. Kibby unpacks concrete tactics, like gaslighting, guilt-tripping, love withdrawal, surveillance, and coercive control, that abusers use to undermine your decision-making. She explores how these tactics often leverage your vulnerabilities and blur your sense of choice and agency, whether in romantic, family, or workplace dynamics.

Feeling manipulated is common in relationships with people with mental illnesses like borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder, or trauma. Actually BOTH the individual with disorders and their loved ones often feel manipulated. Dr. Kibby also breaks down the research behind manipulation in BPD and narcissistic abuse.

Why does this matter? Because understanding these subtle tactics can protect your mental well-being, help you spot emotional tricks early, and empower you to set healthier boundaries. This episode offers practical strategies and tools to disarm manipulation’s grip and reclaim your personal agency. Whether you're navigating toxic family ties, romantic relationships, or workplace conflicts, this episode reveals the unseen manipulative tactics at play and how to dismantle them.

Resources:

• If you need more hands-on help with feeling manipulated by people with mental health or addiction challenges, check out ⁠⁠KulaMind⁠

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• Transcript

  Dr. Kibby McMahon (00:00)

  Hey little helpers. Today I'm going to be talking about a really interesting topic, which is manipulation. And especially I'm going to talk about manipulation when it comes to your relationships with people that you're closest to, like a partner, a child, a parent, sibling, whatever, ⁓ even a boss who might have mental health issues. ⁓ and mostly I talk about borderline personality disorder.

  or a narcissistic personality disorder, but also depression, anxiety, OCD, ⁓ trauma. So I'm just been hearing a lot more, especially when people are really, really frustrated and at the height of like, I don't feel like I have any control or freedom over this relationship. I end up doing things that I don't want to. I ha said yes to giving money or support in ways that I really didn't.

  I said yes to having sex. I I said yes to giving something or doing something for this person. And I didn't want to. And I feel I feel like ⁓ I feel like I didn't have a choice and I had to do something or I did do something, but it I felt manipulated. So that's what I'm hearing a lot where manipulation comes up and ⁓ it maybe think about like what is manipulation? ⁓

  How do we understand it? What is the definition and how does it actually show up in relationships with people with borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder or any kind of mental health issues? But I'm focusing on those because that's where I'm hearing a lot. It's it's it's interesting because with borderline, when you when I hear people talk about their relationships with people with BPD.

  They they only really say that they feel manipulated when they're at that low, when they're really frustrated, when they're really ⁓ overwhelmed and quite sad about their loved one with BPD, but with narc narcissists, narcissistic abuse, it it's like they're evil, they're doing this tactic, and I gotta get out. So there's a lot so it's a little bit more ⁓ this feeling of like

  The narcissist is a bad guy who ni manipulates. Whereas people with loved ones of people with BPD, they they feel manipulated in those relationships, but there's not a clear perception of someone with BPD as like an evil person.

  is manipulation a sign of someone who is evil? Is it bad? Is it is it inherently evil? Or is it just used for evil?

  Before I dive into that whole topic, I do wanna say that if you are in a relationship ⁓ with someone that you love who has borderline personality disorder or narcissistic personality order or just that you know struggles with emotions and you're feeling manipulated or vice versa, like you're feeling like

  I I don't feel free and I don't feel in control and I don't feel respected and I feel overwhelmed by this relationship, then check out KulaMind . That is the program where I help people like you really ground ground themselves in themselves again. So they I teach skills about how to set boundaries, how to ⁓ pay attention to when you feel manipulated, your own feelings and assert yourself.

  and still stay connected and loving to that person, assuming that that's what you want. So check it out. kulamind.com, K-U-L-A-M-I-N-D dot com. Or you can just look on the show notes because I'll have the link there. And you can just book a call with me and talk to me about it and we can figure out if you're the right fit. ⁓ and vice versa. So check out coolamine if if hearing these topics you're like, yeah, I I definitely feel manipulated or there's a

  a problem ⁓ manipulation in my relationship. So first let's start with what is manipulation? That's actually kind of a hard question to answer because when I dug into the research, there's just not very good definitions of manipulation. ⁓ because a lot of things can be considered manipulative, right? So it in the research it looks manipulation is defined as this

  Broad term for behavior that shapes another person's thoughts, feelings, decisions, or actions by exploiting their vulnerability, ⁓ other tactics under this umbrella or distorting reality, ⁓ limiting autonomy, ⁓ making someone feel fear or guilt, dependency or self-doubt. Right. So it's really like making someone do something. ⁓

  in a shitty way, so to speak. But as you as you can tell, that is pretty broad, right? There isn't a lot of research on like manipulation, but there are there is real a lot of research on the different types, like coercive control, which is getting power of some intimidating someone into doing what you want, psychological control, isolation, right? Keeping someone ⁓ keeping someone alone, and also

  any kind of like using their emotions. So at first I was like, my God, this is so broad. What is a manipulation? Is is it really that bad or is it something that ⁓ that only evil people do? And I really like there's one one definition that I saw that I really liked by Alexander Fisher. And he called it the pleasurable ends model of manipulation.

  In this definition, manipulation is defined as a form of influencing someone else, a way of influencing someone else, where the manipulator tries to affect the emotions of another person, and really points them to a decision that they they can perceive as pleasurable or not pleasurable. So it's really like.

  Someone is using another person's emotions to steer them to a decision by making some decisions look unpleasant and the one that they want as pleasant. It's like, okay. So it's a lot more of like a decision-making tactic, like influencing how someone makes decisions. And also in this definition, there is this element of that the manipulator tends to have more power.

  Tends to have more resources, or ⁓ the other person is weaker, more vulnerable, doesn't have as much resources. So there is kind of like a power difference, which might make it easier, but essentially it's someone making you feel something and making you decide based on that emotion. The key part that, like even as is I'm talking about it, I'm like, that's everything, right? That's like we do this all the time. We we

  make people feel stuff so they do something, right? Anyone who is in marketing or sales, you make one option seem really positive, right? Really amazing. You make might commercials might get at your emotions in order for you to take an action, right? And or even just making a speech or pitching or ⁓ talking to someone about your feelings, right? Like

  We are doing this all the time. I'm I talk about this all the time where ⁓ emotions are a form of communication. So is that really bad to have someone make a decision based on their feelings, like appealing to their emotional side to make them make a decision or to like influence them into making a decision? Not inherently, right? But what I think what we feel really uncomfortable with is the idea that.

  That manipulator is making someone make a decision that they normally wouldn't be ⁓ they don't have awareness of or they wouldn't be willing to do, right? So it kind of feels sneaky, right? It's not just I'm making you feel something and I tell you a story, and then it you just feel inspired to do something based on your rational decision making. But like I'm almost like making you

  making you do something based on your emotion, based on manip of influencing your emotion that bypasses your rational mind, that makes you decide something than you normally wouldn't. It speaks to how much we really care about autonomy and rational decision making, right? I mean, we're making emotional decisions all the time. We think it's rational. I mean I I actually spent like so many years ⁓

  in the world of judgment and decision making research. So it's really funny to actually come to this research from that background because I'm like, my God. I mean we know that we make di we make emotional decisions all the time. Most of our decisions are emotional, right? And and we just rationalize it. There's a lot of research showing we make a gut decision and based on an emotion and then we rationalize it later and be like, I chose that because blah blah blah. But really it was because it made us feel something. ⁓

  And then also there's a lot of decisions we make unconsciously. Like we don't sit down and think about and go, okay, let's weigh the pros and cons. And you know, like, is this but sometimes we make decisions without even thinking impulsively or unconsciously. So I'm like, is all decision making, you know, is all social decision making manipulative in some way? But if we really still we s see manipulation.

  As negative because there's this feeling of taking away someone's agency, right? Like going around something that they think or they will they'll want for themselves from a wise mind or rational standpoint, and getting to something that's like more primal and using that to guide their actions and decisions instead of like their conscious self, right?

  So we really love that. We really love the idea that I made the decision because I am, I am in control of my thoughts and I've really thought it through. And if someone made me make a decision that wasn't from my thoughts, my brain, then it doesn't feel good. It feels, it feels like someone took something away from me. It feels like violating, right? So that's where this manipulation gets this kind of, I don't know, bad rap. The actual

  Manipulation is is interesting. The word manipulation, manipulate, comes from the it was originally used to describe like, ⁓ I'm going to move someone. I'm using taking my hand, manipulate, like how we we say this when we talk about like ⁓ chiropractors or something, manipulate your body like ⁓ people who move your body around. Taking your hands and actually moving someone ⁓ to do something.

  Right, that's manipulation. So eventually manipulation, the definition of that word is like skillfully ⁓ moving someone into a certain direction. So you get the sense that, it's like a puppeteer, right? Manipulation is like a puppeteer. You're actually being moved by someone, the manipulator.

  So I was reading this paper by Alexander Fisher, and there's some really cool examples that they that ⁓ this author gives ⁓ that is showing like manipulation can look all different ways. ⁓ I really love that he brought up a one example, which is Tom Sawyer, if I want to read if you've all read ⁓ Tom Sawyer. And

  There's this famous scene where he he's a little rascal, right? And he he has to whitewash a fence. He has to paint a fence and he doesn't like to do do chores. So he acted like it was like the most fun thing ever. And his friends came up to him and was like, wanna, you know, wanna play? And he was like, No, no, I'm doing this really awesome thing by whitewashing. And he made it seem so fun that all the kids joined in and did his whitewashing for him. Right. So that that is

  He he used in this definition of pleasurable ends model manipulation, he used the feeling of excitement and curiosity and the fear of missing out, like a whole FOMO, to encourage these other kids to take over his job. ⁓ the, you know, if you think about why is that so sneaky, why is that that's so bad, it's it's it might not have been a choice that that kids would have made otherwise.

  Right, he made the the whitewashing seem like such a pleasurable option. It drew people into it, right? They they were motivated to it. ⁓ other examples that are more commonplace is like guilt tripping, right? We hear this a lot with people with mental health issues, especially like narcissistic parents. I hear this a lot where they feel guilt-tripped into things. ⁓ like kids of adult of ⁓ narcissistic parents say this all the time, where

  Instead of the parent just asking, Hey, can you call me? Can you, you know, I I miss you. I really want to talk to you more. ⁓ they go, ⁓ fine, if you don't care about your mother, you don't have to call, but it's been so long, and I guess I just I guess you're just negligent, right? So you're so that is using guilt tripping, right? It's like making another person feel guilty for not taking an action. So it's boosting up.

  The option of calling the mom is like a pleasurable one that will give some relief to, or at least is making the not calling more unpleasant, right? So it's kind of like it's it's influencing the this person through their emotions, right? Because you might not have felt bad that you didn't weren't calling them, but you feel bad that they're in so much pain over it and distress. So it makes you have to call them, right? So guilt tripping is another really common manipulation tactic.

  a really famous example that I'm really excited about because I recently saw it on stage and it was amazing. And I remember reading it in high school. But Othello, Shakespeare's Othello. So in Othello, you have Iago, who's like, who's played by Jake Joan Hall, who's so good. but

  ⁓ and Othello was played by Tensel Washington. Both of them are incredible. But Iago is this, you know, conniving, manipulative, sneaky villain. And what he did was he I don't want to give it away. I mean it's it's Shakespeare, you know, it's everywhere, but he he he spends the whole show, the whole play manipulating people, going to different people, befriending them, talking to them.

  And really using their vulnerability, things they care about, their their weak points, their emotions, to get them to do things. And what he eventually does is convince Othello that his wife is cheating on him. ⁓ and he's he's like really played puppeteer all along. He's really, you know, put the chess pieces, he moved people around, ⁓ so it really looks like, you know, there there's this affair going on. And ⁓ Othello kills his wife.

  And so that is like, ⁓ that's clearly manipulation, right? That's like that that's like evil, right? They make someone do something bad against what they normally would have for their own ends. So there is this level in manipulation of I'm gonna influence you based on your emotions, using your emotions. I'm gonna make certain options seem really good and certain options seem really bad, like killing his wife, I guess, made him seem like it seem like a good option. ⁓

  And there's this idea that it's only for the manipulators well being, right? Like

  I hate to say it, but I really think that if we're to take this definition of manipulation, right? Just like using someone's feelings to, you know, inspire them to to make a decision. Well while we have advertising, we have sales, we have storytelling, we have plays, we have entertainment and also therapy. Like we can look at it as I like I'm manipulating, we're manipulating people into doing certain things. We're talking about their emotions, inspiring them to

  to take certain actions. However, the the difference is that therapists, they should, ⁓ ask you what you want, right? What is what is the end that would benefit you? What are your goals here? Okay, let's, I will influence you into doing that, you know, being more connected to your family or being more physically active or engaged with your life, right? Okay, I I will help you with that goal instead of my goal, my selfish goal.

  ⁓ so but in some ways we use like manipulation to get people to do stuff. But the Othello example really highlights what manipulation, the way we think about it, really looks like, which is doing something for a selfish reason that is against someone else's ⁓ well-being or what they their values or their principles or the way they would norm normally make decisions for themselves.

  Now, this part of the definition of manipulation totally surprised me. I assumed that manipulation was kind of like forcing someone to do something they don't want. That's what I thought manipulation was. But actually, a key part of at least this idea of manipulation is they the victim has to make a choice or feel like they have a choice. Right? Because

  If you are making them feel something that makes them go towards a more pleasurable option, maybe I like boosted up that option. Look at that burger. It's so great. You should totally buy my burger. Are you hungry? You go for it, right? the there's an idea that that person is making a decision, right? They are choosing something based on emotion, but it's a this this almost, I guess, an illusion. But there actually is this element of choice. There is autonomy there.

  But it's not the kind of autonomy we like, which is I think with my mind and yeah and ⁓ I make decisions based on that. So if you have a situation where someone doesn't have a choice, that's different. That's closer to coercive control.

  So coercive control is a really big sign of abuse. ⁓ I mean, all of this could be abusive, but this is a really intense form of abuse where the goal is to degrade, isolate, and deprive a person of their rights to security, dignity, and respect. ⁓ which

  It it basically is putting a person in a state of fear for their life and safety and in order to control what they do, right? And so there's all different kinds of strategies and course of control, which is ⁓ like restricting access to fine financial resources, ⁓ blocking their employment, you know, reproductive control, which is like getting someone pregnant against their will, ⁓ social isolation. So

  Coercive control is kind of like the extreme end of manipulation where instead of making you decide things based on your emotions, but it's it's really making you tear like putting you in survival mode and controlling your behavior and actions based on that, right? Making you so scared for your life that you do whatever they want.

  so with most manipulation, there is that element of choice. So the person thinks that they're making a t a choice based on other things, but like their beliefs or their values or whatever, but it may have just just be emotion.

  So with that definition of of manipulation, I I'm hearing that a lot w in these relationships with people with especially borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder, all different types of mental illness, because it could feel so emotionally evocative, right? Like being in a relationship with someone with any kind of emotion dysregulation or personality pathology, it's like there's a lot of emotions there. There's a lot of fear and anger and guilt. ⁓ and

  with these high conflict relationships, sometimes you're doing anything to keep the peace, right? Anything to make them happy. Anything to walk on eggshells and make them calm down or, you know, get them off your back or something, right? So there's a lot of like mostly charred decision making. And so you might look back and say, I think I just said yes to giving them that money because I just

  I just felt like I had to or like I I I didn't want to, but I feel like I just said yes to calm them down. Right. Or I was just afraid of what they'd do if I didn't. And so that's what it feels manipulative.

  But an important thing is to know what kinds of manipulation tactics they're out there. So there, I'm gonna list out a couple of different strategies or tactics for manipulation so you could spot them better. One is reality distortion, also called gaslighting. This is the one that you probably know ⁓ or probably hear about more these days, but that is intentionally undermining someone else's reality or memory.

  ⁓ in order to gain power over them, right? ⁓ usually it's talked about in a romantic context,

  It's making the other person feel like they can't trust their own judgment or perception or memory. And so they have to rely on you, the manipulator, the gaslighter, ⁓ for

  what to do for like a sign of you know truth or ⁓ you know a guiding post, right? So it's like it's it's really affecting the way you trust in yourself. So that's that's one form of manipulation is gaslighting. ⁓ and I have, you know, we've I've talked about that in a whole episode, so I won't delve into that too much. But another strategy is dominance.

  ⁓ also monitoring monitoring and isolation. So in in there's one category of manipulation tactics that is all about controlling the other person, getting power over the other person, being like their manager and like really keeping watch over all their movements and behaviors. ⁓ usually that's blocking them from everyone else, right? Like cutting them off, you know, cutting you off from other friends. ⁓

  or you know other sources support family ⁓ I see that happen usually when it's it's it is really sneaky right it's really it's really manipulative course where someone would say hey you know I just they don't like you know they your family doesn't like me but I think they're all crazy and I think that that they're really not good for you right so you you sow the seeds of doubt in the person's mind the victim's mind until they maybe

  pull away from their own sources of support. So that's like isolation. But there's other ones that are like all about surveillance and monitoring. Even the ones I see commonly, ⁓ and unfortunately I see this in both men and women, is ⁓ tracking phones, looking at phones, asking someone where have you been, ⁓ telling them where they can go, where they cannot go. And the funny thing is that even as I'm saying it, it's

  It's more clear, you you recognize it better if it's someone who's like, you know, authoritative, right? They go, you know, you you need to only hang out with, you know, you never can hang out with the opposite sex, right? That's like it's obvious ⁓ domination. But people can be dominant from a vulnerable place, right? So they could say, it makes me insecure, it makes me jealous when you hang out with the opposite sex. So

  If you want to show me that you love me and make me feel calm, right? You I I want to know every I want to know where you are at all times and I want to see your phone at all times. Right. So that's that is actually a form of manipulation because it's using the person's love and wanting to care for you as know against them in order to like limit their autonomy. ⁓ so that is dominance and want and ⁓ monitoring. So

  Another one, another manipulation tactic is humiliation or emotional verbal abuse, degradation. That is really attacking the self-esteem, right? That's that's saying, you know, ⁓ God, if you're so crazy or you're so dumb. Why you, you know, making the person feel incompetent or even yelling or threats, right? So this is using this is really attacking the person's self-esteem to weaken them.

  So they might take certain actions, right? ⁓ this one is this one I found really interesting in family dynamics because there are family dynamics. And maybe I'm just thinking more from from the cross-cultural standpoint, where Americans and let's say Chinese or or East Asian cultures, they might see

  I think humiliation differently or criticism differently. ⁓ there might be other cultures like you know, like Chinese that are more critical, right? That it's like more okay to say, hey, you look fat, or why didn't you get a better, better grade? Or, you know, that person is doing better than you, right? In certain cultures, that's actually like a positive thing, but it's still using a feeling of shame to motivate them to do something, right?

  And for you know, Western cultures, like me being born here, that feels totally manipulative because that because I I want autonomy, right? First of all, I I don't wanna be shamed, right? Like it it feels like don't try to make me do something out of humili humiliation, but ⁓ I wanna be treated as an individual with who can make her own choices, right? Not that I like this, but but if someone asks me, hey, you know.

  Do you want to work out more? you want you don't want you wanna ⁓ what do you think about, you know, working on your diet or something versus like, wow, you look fat. Both will hurt. Both are criticisms and trying to motivate me to like get on the treadmill, so to speak. But ⁓ in one case, I feel like they're treating me like I have autonomy and I could choose, and they're leveling with me as a person, whereas in

  You know, the Chinese culture that feels to me more like you're just bypassing that part of me and just making me make a decision based on trying to not feel so ashamed or not feel so afraid. So, but humiliation, ⁓ especially in romantic relationships, can look all sorts of ways. It could look like

  you know, just like teasing, like, I'm just kidding, you know, making jokes about you being dumb or, you know, whatever, incompetent, not good, not a good cook or not a good mom or whatever, and being like, just kidding. or it could be just outright like insults. Right. So that is one one form of I guess like just general abuse manipulation. But

  ⁓

  Another form of manipulation, which I just talked about was is guilt, right? But ⁓ there is this really cool research, I'm not really cool, but just kind of depressing research in the parenting world where

  parental psychological control can look like using guilt tripping or

  love withdrawal or conditional approval to get their kids to do something. So this category is actually working on someone's attachment insecurity, right? It's exploiting their attachment and security. It's exploiting how your kid or even a partner will do anything to stay close to you, stay safe with you, and get your love and attention approval, right? That's just like a biological natural thing that we do.

  But if you use that against that person, that desire to like want to be close to you by making them feel guilty. ⁓ you never call me. It's so terrible. Like, I guess you don't love your mother, right? That that's you that's playing on the attachment and security. But the love withdrawal and the conditional approval, right? Only being affectionate if they do things that you want them to do. Or

  ⁓ you know approving them as a person only if they make certain choices, right? So if they choose to go to this school versus that school, ⁓ the manipulation part is I'm gonna make the school that I want look more attractive by giving them the silent treatment if they talk about the other one. Or ⁓ whenever they lose a competition, I'm going to not approve of them and not even regard them as

  as you know, with the same kind of love and affection as I normally do to inspire them to work harder out of just like fear of losing you. ⁓ I also think that I'm seeing this a lot. I mean, I I know this this whenever we think of like withdrawing love as a parental ⁓ psychological control, but I'm seeing now kids, adult kids are doing this a lot to their parents. ⁓ with the

  The rise in estrangement. There are a lot of kids who feel out of control of their relationship to their parents, right? That's just a natural feeling. Like you grew up, you trusted these people, and maybe you felt hurt, abused, neglected, whatever. You were unhappy with the way they parented. So I'm seeing that some kids are using that as a ⁓ manipulation tactic. It's like,

  If you don't give me money, or if you don't buy me an apartment, or if you don't buy me a car, or if you don't give me the credit card, I'll never speak to you again. Or you'll never hear from me again. I'm out. I'm never, you know, I hate you, right? So kids of all ages are using that love withdrawal to manipulate their parents. ⁓ so don't do that. ⁓ and the

  And the last kind there's a couple categories, but there are like way more serious versions that kind of veer into the coercive control, which is like economic or resource control or threats. Now, this is really like, hey, I'm gonna make you feel something and make you do something based on that feeling by making you feel unsafe, totally unstable in your own autonomy or sense of sense of safety. So that's

  That's what you imagine, like not giving someone money, ⁓ just stopping them from working, or threatening them. If you do this, then I'm gonna I don't know, I'm gonna smack you, I'm gonna hurt the kids, I'm gonna take the kids away, something like that. So this is this is like trying to get someone to do something by making them afraid that if they don't do it, something terrible is gonna happen.

  And when you get into those levels of coercive control, it really tips the scales to that person having all the power. Because our decision making, if you think about it, if you if you know, think about like what are you gonna buy for lunch today? ⁓ if you have if you feel safe and secure and like survival is not difficult.

  then you feel more free to make decisions and you can make decisions based on like, ⁓ you know what, I wanna try the sushi place, or you know, I wanna, you know, I I'm gonna make decisions based on my values or my interests at the moment. But if you make someone terrified, right? Like there and and like put them in survival mode, they're gonna make the one decision it takes to survive, right? If like there's no other restaurant, right, you're gonna you know I'm like, look at this, you know, look at McDonald's is the only place. And you're gonna

  Go eat there because otherwise you'll die in this weird hypothetical situation that I'm making up, right? So coercive control and actually making people feel fundamentally unsafe, not unsafe in the Instagram way that we're talking about it, which is like more like discomfort, but unsafe like I'm gonna die. I'm scared for my kids' life, I'm scared for my life, I'm scared that I won't be able to afford housing, I won't be able to pay for the bills for food or anything like that.

  If you're getting at their like fundamental needs to survive, then you're really controlling someone against their will, right? They can only make that one decision to survive. If you're putting someone at gunpoint, their decision-making process is all gonna be what's gonna help me live. ⁓ so that doesn't that person doesn't feel like they have freedom of choice.

  Right. So you're robbing them of their agency and autonomy if you put them under coercive control. It's funny that I keep saying you like I'm I'm addressing you like don't do this, but also you're the victim. So ⁓ I apologize if it gets confusing, but you you know what I'm talking about. So those are those are just some of the main ⁓ those are some of the main strategies for manipulation that I was reading about.

  Reality distortion, also called gaslighting, dominating someone or you know, putting them under surveillance or monitoring, humiliation or verbal abuse, degradation, guilt, you know, working on their, I guess, attachment insecurity, guilt, withdrawal, withdrawal of love and approval, and the other levels of like making them feel unsafe by threatening them, threatening their physical safety or economic stability or resources.

  So those are the those are the different kinds of manipulation that I've been reading about.

  Now I'm thinking about it in terms of what does manipulation look like in relationships with people with personality disorders? So when I first started thinking about this topic, and I was like, let me think of examples of times that I've felt manipulated. ⁓ sure I've manipulated people too. but it's interesting because it's like, does a manipulator have to do this intentionally? Like

  Do they is it like a hmm, like twiddle your thumbs evil, like I'm gonna make someone do something bad, like the Othello ⁓ example? Or can you manipulate someone unintentionally? Like you make some you inspire someone to make take an action based on their emotions, but you didn't mean to do that? I don't know, that's a question. So when I was thinking about manipulation, I was trying to think of examples, ⁓ the first thing that popped up

  was one of my ex-boyfriends who I think had some sort of antisocial ⁓ traits. he would lie a lot. He would make up stories that were so nuts that I'm like, why would you make that up? It doesn't like we could easily find that out and it doesn't even make sense. Like he said that ⁓ he got hit on by Paris Hilton

  ⁓ that he bought a bunch of planes and they were hanging out in an a hangar in China until he was ready to use it. Like just things that I was like, what is going on? So there was the I go talk about reality distortion. I mean I just even even when he was saying stuff like that, I do not know if the intention was

  I'm going to make Kibby or the people that I'm saying this to feel weaker or make them doubt their reality. I believe he was doing it to just kind of make an image of himself. So what's what's weird about that is that people who tend to lie and deceive ⁓ like that, they they might be making other people do things, they might influence other people's decisions, but it's really more about them and feeling.

  ⁓ like of a defense against shame. So I don't know. ⁓ but what what I remember is the most manipulative, like really obviously manipulative ⁓ move was this is such a terrible story. I'm like I feel weird about telling it but here I am. ⁓ we were in Central Park and I and I we were just playing around and we're running on

  these rocks. These are these beautiful cliffs and rocks in Central Park. And we were on a tall one and like a really, really high rock. And I was looking over, I was like, whoa, it's you know, it's so scary. And he was, I don't know how this came up, but he said basically like, ⁓ I want you to go down on me. I want you to give me ⁓ give me a blowjob. Otherwise I'm gonna jump off this cliff. I'm gonna hurt myself, essentially. And

  At first I was like, what? No. And then ⁓ laughing. ⁓ but then he said, No, really. If you don't do that right now, I'm gonna jump. And it like clear like it was a situation where clearly he would have gotten hurt. So I like he said it over and over seriously until I started crying. And I was about to do it, to be honest. Like that's the part that makes me feel really weird to talk about. I like almost started and then he like pushed me away. He was like,

  No, I wouldn't do that. Come on. and I was like distraught for the rest of the day. I was so I don't even know what I was. I think I was embarrassed. I think I was sad. I think I was so scared. I was angry, right? But I I was just furious that I was just like sobbing. I remember sobbing all that day. And then actually, now that I'm talking about it, something else that he did was.

  Later on that night, I I think I was trying to break up with them or saying, like, that was so so messed up what you did. Like I, you know, I got I feel horrible. And he was like, It was a joke. I didn't mean to God, now I feel bad for making you f making you feel that bad. Why would I do that? I'm s I feel so bad about myself. And then he told me that he was so mad at himself for doing that that he shoved his heel into a picture frame and sliced his heel open.

  And I remember a couple days later he showed me his heel and there was a scar there. And he was like, see, this is this is what I did. This is this is what I did to make to to show you how sorry I am that I did that. And I remember thinking at the time, how is it possible that you sliced up your foot and a top a couple days later it's a scar? So it was just like a lie on top of I don't even know. It was so crazy. But

  Talk about me I was reading about manipulation and that's the story that popped up in my mind as the most obvious ⁓ example in my life, but he was using my vulnerability, my vulnerability basically of not wanting him to get hurt. ⁓ and probably other intimidation too. He was a guy, he was bigger than me, you know, so I was probably scared. But I didn't want him to get hurt. So using that fear to get me to, you know.

  basically do a sexual act that I didn't want to. ⁓ and then I guess later on, making like guilt tripping me and saying, like, look, I I I hurt myself because I made you feel bad. So then I basically stopped being so upset at him, so mad at him. but that is just using all my emotions to lead me to a decision that I normally wouldn't have ⁓ with my rational mind if I had the freedom of choice.

  or was using other things besides that fear to make a decision, right? I just we were in Central Park. I wouldn't I wouldn't have done that in public. ⁓ so that's a sad, sad example of of manipulation. But what I do here is with I guess less in insidious in situations, less like obviously hurtful tactics.

  Where, for example, a lot of kids with borderline personality disorder will be like, How could you, you know, I I need to live in your house, how could you kick me out? ⁓ I'm so, you know, things are so hard for me. ⁓ I'm gonna hurt myself, right? So like some of these parents of people with BPD.

  feel manipulated into saying, yes, okay, you could stay here. Yes, okay, you could have the credit card. Yes, okay, I will do this for you. Yes, okay, right. Like I I they feel like they're moved by the fear of something bad happening to their child or their love for their child or other loved one. And make decisions based on that that they regret otherwise or feel like it's not, you know, in line with their values or what they actually would want outside of that feeling.

  So

  And you know, when I talk to those people, they go, like I think my kid's manipulative, or I think my love my my husband's manipulative, manipulated me into giving them that money. Sometimes I feel that too with with my ex, where, you know, like he lived in my house and didn't work. I've talked about this and ⁓ whenever I would ask about work or whether he was gonna support, he would be like, ⁓ things have been so hard for me. I'm so ashamed, blah, blah, blah. And then I would feel so guilty that I wouldn't I would drop it.

  And now I feel like I was manipulated because it pla it played on a motion I had ⁓ to do something that I that was against my will or, you know, different decision than I normally would have. So is someone are these loved ones with mental illness or personality disorders are they manipulative? Now I'm gonna argue no. It's which sounds weird, except for my ex-boyfriend who try to

  say he's gonna jump off a cliff ⁓ if I didn't give him a head. But ⁓ the research does not show that people with borderline personality disorder or even narcissistic personality disorder, but more d more BPD, that people with BPD are not manipulative. I know, right? That's so crazy.

  So no, surprisingly, ⁓ borderline personality disorder in the literature is not connected to manipulation. There is more evidence that there's, of course, a lot of ups and downs on relationships, a lot of attachment insecurity, a lot of ⁓ interpersonal violence, but you know, back and forth, right? So there is a lot of like emotional issues. However, if you really think about it, like manipulation is like

  The way we're thinking about it in the most evil sense is like, I'm gonna make you do something that's only good for me and bad for you. ⁓ and if we take this as like an intentional tactic, right? I'm gonna intentionally doing this. ⁓ people with borderline personality disorder, at least in my experience, don't say that that's what they're doing, right? They don't say, I'm gonna make them feel bad for me so that I'm gonna threaten to hurt myself, so I'm gonna make them do something, right? They don't say that.

  What is more likely is that people with BPD have a really hard time asking for what they need, asserting themselves, basically getting their needs met in relationships in healthy ways, in direct ways. There's a couple pieces of the manipulation ⁓ definition that comes into play here. So if manipulation is

  Affecting someone else's emotions to get them to make a decision. Well, if you think about it, someone with borderline personality disorder, that's how they're making decisions most of the time, right? In in the disorder, their emotions are so dominant that sometimes they take over and take over what they see, how they think, what they decide. So they're making emotional decisions all the time, which is motion mind in DBT, but they're like,

  Feeling and then they're acting. and they might not be aware of what their needs are, but that they're just like kind of operating on emotions, right? And so it kind of does make sense that if they say, I this is how I make ⁓ make decisions, I ⁓ I make decisions based on emotion, then it makes sense that the way they would get their needs met is through emotion expression and also getting someone else to feel.

  something, right? So it's almost like they're using the language of emotion because that's what that's what they know. That's what they know actually determines their decision making.

  So with people with BPD or trauma, their sense of agency is compromised. They don't feel like they have their own power to make decisions. They don't feel like they can make rational decisions. They're often in survival mode. They their their emotions take over their mind. They don't feel like they're in control.

  And some people with BPE don't even feel like they have a sense of self, right? They like with identity diffusion and they don't know who they are, they don't know why they're making their decisions, they're kind of like blowing in the wind. Their sense of like, I make decisions based on my rational thoughts and ⁓ autonomy, and I feel like in control of my choices, and so do you. They might not have that idea, right? They might not know what that feels like.

  In fact, at DBT, we have to teach people with borderline personality disorder ⁓ how to locate their rational mind, how to locate their emotions and make a decision based on the combination of the two, right? Not just from emotions or or whatever, but ⁓ how to actually feel like they have agency to make their own decisions. So I imagine that if they don't feel like they have agency in themselves, it's really hard to.

  I guess appeal to that side and other people, right? So it we actually have to teach people with BP to ⁓ tune into what they need and actually ask for it. Ask for it explicitly, not try to do guilt tripping or make someone angry and order or make someone scared so they st you know, they like don't threaten them so they stay with you, but actually say, Hey, I I really need you in this relationship and I want want I need this, right? So ⁓

  So I think that when people feel like ⁓ their loved ones with BPD are manipulative, what's really happening is that these people with BPD don't have as much of a sense of their own agency and rational decision making outside of their emotions. So if that's how they communicate and influence someone else and feel influenced into making decisions, that's gonna feel manipulative.

  Right, but they don't mean to be manipulative. That's just how they get their needs met. Now, narcissist narcissists might be a little bit different. Narcissistic disorder, yes, there is evidence that there's exploitation, coercive control, and psychological aggression. Those are the three different types of manipulation that's really ⁓ really found in narcissistic personality disorder. And if you think that the

  Larger than like grandiose narcissists or the ones who are abusers? No, it's actually the research shows that vulnerable narcissists have worse cases of intimate partner violence and manipulation. So vulnerable narcissists tend to hurt people in relationships more. Not what I expected, but that is, I think, the the the piece about

  narcissistic personality disorder is power. It's a it's a disorder of power. It's a disorder of ⁓ of thinking that you are not worthy or lovable unless you are the most powerful and the most special and above other people. Right. So it's a very conditional way of seeing self-worth. Now

  If that's the case, right? If you believe that, that I'm only worthy if I have power over everyone, well, what do you think is going to happen in relationships? They're going to do all sorts of things to keep power. They're going to manipulate the other person to feel scared to leave. They're going to belittle them, make them feel less than, and they are going to maybe like scare them and and bully them into compliance, maybe monitor what what they do.

  Right. So it's all about getting power for people with narcissistic personality disorder. So they can they will use their position of power and exploit another person's vulnerability, right? To like exploit them or to control them. So there is there is a lot more manipulation in narcissistic personality disorder, but the main goal is for them to get power. ⁓ so if you are

  So if you're in a relationship with someone with borderline personality disorder, narcissistic personality disorder or any kind of difficult toxic relationship, here are some strategies for how to stop being manipulated. List them out first. One, make it explicit. Two, strengthen your own rational, autonomous decision making. And three, take space and get a reality check so you can.

  Further do that, make decisions based on ⁓ more sound principles than just emotion. Okay, so I'll break that down. The first tactic, the first strategy I would I would suggest for stop being manipulated is to really be aware that you're being manipulated. So there's all this cool research on priming. Like if you're looking to the like there's a there's a cool study where if

  People are in a movie theater, they would flash a an image of a Coca-Cola ⁓ in the in the trailers. And it would happen so quickly that people wouldn't be conscious of it. But they saw sales of Coca Coca-Cola in that theater go up when they did that. Right. So it's manipulative, right? It's it's like, you know, like bypassing your rational decision making and getting, you know, getting to a feeling to make you buy more Coca-Cola. However,

  In that research, they demonstrated that if you were aware that those that Coca-Cola would flash, even if it was still so quick you couldn't really see it, but if they were told, hey, listen, when you go into that theater, they're gonna flash a picture of Coca-Cola to make you try to buy it. If that happens, they're much less likely to go buy the Coca-Cola. So in the priming research, you know.

  ⁓ and I guess it applies to marketing and all different kinds of persuasion tactics. But if you are aware that the tactic is happening, you're able to then control it with your rational mind and you're able to like combat the effects of being manipulated into a decision. So if someone is manipulating you, you could just see and and you and look at their behavior. And sometimes you might have to look at your behavior over time and say, okay, every time they they do this.

  Every time they threaten to hurt themselves, I feel skip terrified. And then I give them money or I say yes to things. Right. So you could kind of see like tracking your own emotional ⁓ behaviors and saying, ⁓ every time I feel guilty or every time I feel scared or angry, I do this. ⁓ and seeing the the pattern. So I've

  husband and I call it seeing the matrix code is when you actually see when someone is doing their tactics to get you to do something, right? So see the matrix code in order to ⁓ kind of dispel the effects of manipulation. Okay. So the second one is strengthen your own decision making process. Balance and and I don't mean just ⁓ making a decision based on rationality because it because actual decision making takes both emotion and

  your rational thought. So you can think about it this let's balance the long term and short term ⁓ effects of that decision. So my favorite ⁓ my favorite ⁓ tool, a skill for that is balancing the pros and cons. So when you think of taking a decision, let's say I'm gonna go to the movie theater, or I'm gonna buy Coca Cola, right? And sit down and think, okay

  What are my two different decisions or my several different decisions? Buying Coca-Cola, not buying Coca-Cola, sitting there with no drink. So laying out your decisions and then writing the pros and cons for each, which I know sounds funny because if I'm gonna say pro to buying Coca-Cola, you would think that just goes a into the con. But sometimes it just highlights different things when you do pros and cons of each decision. and sometimes even just weighing that out.

  Like writing out why you wouldn't take a decision, the benefits of it and the costs. Sometimes that would just reveal certain things that are important to you. Like not buying drinking Coca-Cola would be in line with my long-term goals of being healthy, versus like in the moment, my God, I'm in a movie theater and it's so exciting and I want to drink a drink something sugary. Right. So

  that feels sometimes more like I'm making an autonomous choice because I'm making it based on what I find is important in the long term, right? So trying that pros and cons thing. But also it's really I found really helpful when it comes to people who are in abusive relationships or in narcissistically abusive relationships to take space, right? You know, natural the isolation's gonna go against that. But

  Taking space, talking to other people, taking a step, but taking a break sometimes is really helpful. Sometimes when in situations like when I've felt kind of trapped in something, I've taken space from it, ⁓ like a vacation, like a one week away. And that helps not make all the feelings so urgent. So you don't feel like you're making decisions based on that emotion or fear or whatever.

  But you could step back and say, wow, let me look at the whole situation. and what would I decide otherwise? Right? What would I what do I choose? What's the right decision here? Therapy or talking to other people are also helpful because you're bringing in other perspectives than that one one person that might be manipulating you, right? That one person is gonna make you feel like, my God, whitewashing a fence is so fun. But then when you talk to other people, they'd be like, what? I don't know what you're talking about.

  So you could start to balance and be like, ⁓ that person is making one ⁓ option way more ⁓ appealing.