Ep. 201 - How to Support Someone in Addiction Recovery: 6 Things That Actually Help
When someone you love gets sober, it can feel like everything should finally be okay. But addiction recovery isn’t an on/off switch, and for loved ones, this stage can bring its own fear, uncertainty, and challenges.
In this episode, Dr. Kibby McMahon shares six research-backed ways you can support someone in addiction recovery while also protecting your own well-being.
We cover:
• How to make treatment and recovery easier to access
• Why reinforcing healthy recovery behaviors matters
• How to communicate without escalating shame or conflict
• How to prepare for the possibility of an overdose
• Why your own mental health and safety matter too
• How to recognize underlying mental health and relationship issues during recovery
Dr. Kibby also shares her own experience supporting her mother through alcoholism, relapse, and long-term sobriety, and why recovery required healing not only for her mother, but for their relationship too.
We’re also excited to share that KulaMind, in partnership with researchers at Brown University, is studying KulaMind Recovery, a program specifically designed to support loved ones of people recovering from substance use disorders.
If you or someone you love is in addiction recovery and you’re interested in participating, check the link in the show notes to learn more.
Learn more about KulaMind and get support for yourself and your loved one.
Link to study: https://studies.buildclinical.com/bcfs002065-rih-ramsey-131/
#AddictionRecovery #SubstanceUseRecovery #FamilySupport #MentalHealth #AddictionSupport #Recovery
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Families are really struggling.
Families are struggling with mental illness in ways that shock me.
I have even talked about it on publicly on social media, and people can't believe what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is I'm seeing families and loved ones fracture in ways that I've never seen before.
0:25
People are angry with each other.
Men hate men hate women, women hate men, parents hate their kids, and the kids hate their parents.
Like there's just so much pain and anger.
Hi guys, welcome to A Little Help for Our Friends, a podcast for people with loved.
0:42
Ones struggling with mental health.
Hello Little helpers.
Today is going to be the last episode of season 6 of A Little Help for Our Friends.
We're just going to take a hiatus for one week and don't be back with season 7.
1:01
So it's not really a good buy for long.
But traditionally we've always used this last episode of the season to wrap up and reflect on what we learned in the past year of the of the podcast.
And it's really interesting to do that with such a pivotal and game changing season for a little help for our friends and reflecting back.
1:29
It was, it was interesting.
It's I can't believe it's been a year.
A lot has happened.
And I think the major thing is that when I was looking back on this past year, I really thought about what it was like starting when like in November, when it felt like starting this podcast anew, Jacqueline Trumbull, who was my Co host for many years, left.
1:59
And I was like, what do I do now?
And it turned out that that time, this change was really, really pivotal.
I've learned a lot.
I'm even trying to right now think about what even happened in the months before.
2:16
Oh my God, just so this year was just bananas.
So I'm just going to summarize the three main things that I've learned in this past year through this podcast and through this journey.
That's crazy for people who don't know.
2:35
I don't know how much of you guys listening are new or old fans, but we started Jacqueline.
I started this podcast in 2020, like in COVID, maybe 2021, I can't even remember, but I remember it was in COVID and she had had podcast experience before being on the Bachelor and I had none.
3:00
I was, I, I knew that I wanted to talk about these things, about all the things that we're learning in grad school and in our PhD and with our, what we know as psychologists.
And I wanted to reach a broader audience.
I wanted to give it to people, right, and make it more accessible.
3:18
And I didn't know how to do that.
And, you know, thankfully she just, she suggested doing this podcast.
So we were totally new.
We were, it was awkward.
We were like reading our scripts and I was so nervous.
We had to do a bunch of takes for our first episode, which was on how to use DBT skills to get through the pandemic.
3:38
That was our first episode and we had done about, I guess, you know, 5 1/2 seasons together.
And in that time, in those years, it was like a friendship diary of all this, like 1 of this crazy times in our life.
3:58
We got some of us got engaged, some of us broke up an engagement, some of us got me.
I got a divorce, I had a kid, I had cancer.
And that's all documented in this podcast and all the episodes we had before.
4:14
It was like basically Zoom conversations with me and Jacqueline just talking about what we're going through, as well as having guests and like really learning from them to learning about the guests, learning about whatever we were going through.
And really, you know, taking a specific lens to really drawing lessons from what we're learning and what we're going through and communicating it to you all.
4:39
Trying to make it something that's fun and accessible and easy to listen to.
Not easy.
I'm still working on it, as you can tell.
But this was a crazy year because in the middle of the season, Jacqueline left.
4:56
And also I've been growing this company and this audience around cool of mind around essentially what this podcast was meant for, which is to give tips and solace, comfort and strategies to people who are struggling with mental illness or addiction and really shedding light on a if someone has, if someone is drinking a lot or has BPD or narcissism, it's not just them, it's the people around them that also suffer.
5:27
And it's just so crazy to me that we only talk about mental illness like a one person problem.
It's just really not.
So I've grown a lot in like building a company for that mission, doing this podcast, growing in myself, right?
5:44
Like I went through a lot of different changes.
And so I'll summarize a, a little bit of these, these big lessons learned through this kind of crazy year.
And you know, I always say this, but if you are struggling with a loved one who has mental illness and let's say you have a adult child or partner that's struggling with anger issues, maybe they are dealing with drugs and alcohol and they're depressed or anxious and they're just struggling and you don't know what to do.
6:17
This is why I build coal mine.
This is why we build this podcast.
So if you want more hands on help from me, you can check out the link in our our show notes.
Kulamind KUL AM ind.com is the website and that's my program for I really just give as much hands on help for learning these skills, but how to talk to them, how to manage crises, how to set boundaries without cutting them off and you know, without all the guilt and communicating and supporting them without draining you entirely.
6:53
So that's what Coolamine is for.
And if you're in this situation and you just want to learn more, book a call with me.
You go to the website and just book a call with me and then we could talk through what you're looking for.
But I also just love talking to you guys anyway.
So please, if you're listening to this and want to reach out, please do so.
7:13
That being said, there are three major things I learned this year in this very hard and very cathartic year.
I know that this year is the year of the Fire Horse and Chinese Zodiac sign.
7:31
We, we went into the, the year the Fire Horse and I learned that it was a time of chaotic and transformational change.
So there's a lot of changes that at least happened in my life and this podcast, in this company, this community.
7:49
And it wasn't linear.
It isn't smooth, but if feel, if I feel movement, I feel like a breakthrough.
That's it.
That's the word I was looking for a breakthrough, which hurts sometimes and it's really hard.
8:05
So the three things I the three major things I learned this year 1 and I'll go through each one One, let go of rules that you don't fit anymore. 2, success and results come from consistency and the right support.
8:22
And three, families are really struggling with mental illness.
They're really struggling, especially parents and like boomer parents and their millennial or Gen.
C kids.
8:39
There's a huge divide.
There's a lot of pain, you know, there's a lot of tension, a lot of hurt, which I talked about all of these things before, but those are my three major lessons.
So I'll start with the first one, letting go of roles that you don't fit anymore.
This one's tough.
8:58
So, and on this podcast, we've talked a lot and Jacqueline and I have talked a lot about breaking out of unhealthy and toxic relationship patterns, letting go of partners, of family members of friends that maybe not let go, but recognizing when we're stuck in a cycle of a, a dance that you're used to, right?
9:31
And then something that's unhealthy, something that feels familiar, right?
I like to call it like the relationship blueprint.
Some people call it internal working models.
But what this means is, like, we are sometimes stuck in dynamics or relationships or even stories that are from our childhood that feel familiar but actually hold us back or actually unhealthy, right?
10:00
So for people who, you know, their dads were unemotionally unavailable, they might be always chasing emotionally unavailable men, right?
Because the blueprint is like, that's what I do, and this is what's normal for me.
And then there comes a time when you might be aware that this is what's happening.
10:19
You're like, oh, I'm doing it again, but you still do it.
I definitely have spent my romantic life, have done that over and over again.
Like chasing a certain kind of person and then being like, this is not working.
And knowing that I'm doing, knowing that I'm doing it, knowing that I'm drawn to certain people because they feel familiar.
10:39
And then being I'm being like, maybe I'll be different this time.
And then just this is always the same because maybe I make it the same.
But I'm really feeling what it's like to really give that up.
There's a lot of pain.
There's a lot of it's sometimes people do the same thing even if it's unhealthy, but just because it's familiar.
11:03
And it's true that a lot of people will do the same thing over and over again because it's familiar and that feels easier than trying something new.
So I've learned, I mean, I've learned simply go ahead and do that.
11:22
I've learned that there's a lot of freedom and relief from that.
And it's also scary.
So it's kind of scary to talk about this.
But Jacqueline leaving the podcast was a big moment for me.
11:41
It was, it was very scary and it's very upsetting.
She left around, I forgot exactly 1, but in the middle of season 6, just suddenly and I was terrified.
I was terrified of what to do.
I think part of it was I was, I was, I was scared for a practical reason because I, you know, it just in professional or you know, like business or this kind of setting.
12:08
I had always seen myself as the Wozniak to the Steve Jobs.
So I know that I am, I pride myself in being very competent and very good at figuring out technical skills or how to execute something.
12:24
Like if there's a project and they're like, Kibby, we need this idea to come alive, I will figure out how to produce something.
And so I was really, you know, proud of that.
But I just assumed that I had to just do that to get people to love me, which feels really achy to say.
12:45
I'm really embarrassing, but it's true.
So I ended up just always chasing dynamics or at least feeling drawn to it or feeling like like that.
That feeling of like, Oh yes, I like this person.
I don't know why.
For people who valued that in me, for people who liked that I was competent and could do stuff and make things happen for them and maybe they didn't even ask me, but I would just do that.
13:12
I would just people please.
And that way, like I, I take care of things and I figure things out and I do the hard stuff and you do the technical stuff that people don't want to do, right.
And so I was the Wozniak.
I mean, that's even overblown.
I'm embarrassing to say Wozniak is a genius.
13:27
But like, you know what I mean?
Like the, the person behind the scenes, right?
Make it, you know, the producer.
And I kept putting myself in that position, but over time, I could see that I was getting resentful of that position.
I was resentful because I was like, I, I think I wanted more recognition from that.
13:46
I wanted to, that was my way of getting security.
Like I'm doing so much, you know, am I irreplaceable now?
It made me feel needy.
It made me feel resentful.
It made me into a bitter person that I didn't like.
14:05
Like I would keep doing stuff and then I'd be like, why don't, why don't I feel seen?
Why don't I feel valued?
Why don't I feel like I, you care about me?
And I over time, I started to see myself doing that.
14:25
I could, I could recognize like even with an old business partner in the past couple years, you know, that that person was Steve Jobs and says they were like flashy and charismatic and bold.
And I don't say arrogant, but they're they're able to draw attention to themselves in a way that was helpful.
14:49
And I was like, I need to, I need to pair up with this.
I need to be behind them making things happen for them.
And every time I was like, you know, like this, this feeling, this hope that that would give me the kind of security and love and appreciation that I was hoping for.
15:09
Then I never did.
I never, I never did, always fell apart a lot in a large part because of me, because I would feel resentful and like, you know, I would say boundaries and that person would be upset with the boundaries.
15:26
I would keep giving, giving and feel like I was overextending myself.
I felt like I had to do it right.
There's, there's a lot on me that made that whole part not work.
I'm trying to be really diplomatic here.
Then after a while, it was just like, after I kept falling apart.
15:45
It's just like, why?
Why do I keep fitting myself in this role?
It's because I just felt too afraid to step out on my own or every feel like I was good enough.
I never gave myself the chance to be in a different role than the Wozniak and put in that position.
16:07
I was very, very scared, very, very scared on an existential level.
I, I had every single morning, every single morning waking up.
I was just drowning and self doubt.
I mean really like waking up and being like, you're not a Kibby, you're not enough, you're not doing enough.
16:27
Like why do you know, like here's what you're doing wrong?
You're like, look at other people that you know, just like beating myself up every morning as a way to keep myself down, I guess.
I don't know.
But after a while I got bored of it.
I was just like, Kibby, stop, stop.
16:44
I want to stop ruminating over how I'm not good enough to be something different than the behind the scenes person.
And what really did help was just kind of been getting bored of my own crap, but also going on that psilocybin healing retreat in February for breast cancer survivors and just letting myself clear out the garbage.
17:12
Like, I was just trying to like, maintain old mechanisms, old machinery, and just like, just stop, just let it go.
And there was a lot of loss in that.
There's a lot of loss in saying goodbye to old patterns.
17:30
If you are listening and you're like, I'm in a relationship that reminds me just like of the way my dad treated me or whatever.
And I keep trying to make it work.
Like there's a feeling in those relationships where you feel like you have to force it.
17:46
You feel like you have to force something you like, why do I keep getting drawn into this?
And it's so hard and it's so much effort to try to maintain and it just is wearing on me and draining me.
If you're feeling that way, I mean, every situation is different, so I'll never say like get rid of them, blah, blah, blah.
18:04
But like they're if you let go of those roles that don't fit anymore, I was, it's scary and terrifying and there's a lot of loss and loneliness, but there's also like so much growth that seems to just happen.
It's crazy letting go of some of those roles.
18:22
I was so much more aware of all the friends and people around me and my partner, you know, all these people who just believe in me and, you know, made me feel seen already.
And I was like, how could, how, how did I spend all my time worrying about the people who didn't?
18:41
And these other people are just here.
And I just took them for granted, right?
So it almost seems like new things just pop out and blossom and the psilocybin retreat just felt like I just came back to myself.
I kind of cleared out old stagnant stuff and I felt like I feel like myself again.
19:04
And I don't feel like I have to be in this new thing that like I don't have to.
I'll talk more about this, but I always assumed that eventually I had to step into some kind of like Steve Jobs look at me role.
19:22
This sounds stupid, but I guess maybe, I guess what maybe what I'm saying is I was so afraid to lead and I feel like clearing out old stuff has made me ready to lead and not even lead in the way that I thought, which was like I have to drag and force and put an effort.
19:40
But just like allowing the things that want to grow and heal and create, just giving them space to do that.
This is sounding so esoteric, but I'm hoping it comes through.
But there's something that happens when you let go of old unhealthy patterns, old roles, old things that you do to try to keep the peace or to make people happy and to try to stay safe.
20:05
And you just like just give up that effort and actually just allow the good stuff that's there to just come to you.
I hope the people who are hearing this and this resonates, I can give that a try.
I can't say exactly what that means for you.
20:23
That can mean breaking up with someone.
That can mean focusing on different friendships, doing a different career, or just appreciating what you already have and stop obsessing over the thing that is just doesn't.
It feels like a round peg in a square hole.
20:39
So just let go.
That's one thing.
The second thing is I learned that success comes from dogged consistency and good support.
The the weird thing is that around that time I was like terrified Jacqueline left.
20:57
I was doing this podcast on my own and I was like, Oh my God, I feel like I had to build something from scratch kind of thing.
This podcast are cool of mine and everything.
So I had been like marketing is my terror or was I was so scared being a psychologist of having to grow a business and I have to do things like sell and be like look at me, get attention, buy my thing like that all felt so icky to me.
21:33
But whenever something feels icky that but I know I had to do it.
I just like dove in obsessively head first.
The one advice I got was that if if you really want to talk to people and reach people, you have to do social media.
21:49
And I was like, no, thank you.
That seemed terrible already.
This this podcast.
Like I feel like I'm like, here I am being, you know, like being too out there and being too public, but I and also like my hair was going out.
22:06
I was still recovering from being a cancer patient, which I forget a lot and like my hair was going back.
So I was like OK, finally I can maybe do social media for business.
But I started my doctor Kibby account in November like end of like the last day of October, November.
22:28
And so I started from zero and I grew to 50K followers.
I just broke 50K recently which was my goal and I really couldn't believe it.
I was just like, I'm like, I never thought I could.
I don't know, the obsessive waking up with doubts.
22:44
I was like, why?
Why do you think you should be?
Like, why?
Why are you posting stupid things like what?
You know?
There's just so much that went into like, I don't, I didn't want to be seen.
I was too scared of being seen.
And I'm learning that marketing or being seen or whatever, it's not about me.
23:10
It's not about the ego, which I was really scared about.
I thought there was just be like, Oh my God, I'm so amazing.
Look at me, follow me.
But it's not I approached it and I still believe in this, that I'm not creating this audience or company or podcast for me.
23:25
And to feel good about me actually is very scary right now doing what I'm doing right now.
What I'm doing is I feel like there is there are millions of people who are struggling with loving someone with a mental illness or addiction.
23:46
For some, for every patient that we see in psychiatry, there's like a whole family and there's a whole community around that person that's also suffering.
And I know that we've all focused on paying attention to the sick person and trying to fix them.
24:04
But like the sickness is also in the family.
It affects the family, right?
And affects the community.
And there are people out there, like I was, who might have a parent or partner who's just angry or drinking too much.
24:20
And they've, they're so scared.
They're just so scared of the magnitude of that person's pain that they feel like they are the only person to carry it and they don't have the strength like all of this that I'm trying to build the marketing, the business is just to reach someone like that, right?
24:41
This is just to get on someone's doom scrolling or their YouTube and being like, I know how hard that is.
I know you feel alone.
I know you feel helpless and scared.
I know that you love this person.
24:57
You also hate them at times.
You want to help them, but you also never want to speak to them again because it hurts so much.
I know what that feels like.
And I'm here to help you.
At least I'm going to do my very best to try.
That's all marketing is.
25:13
I mean, for for a therapist or anyone listening to this.
And they're like, oh, the marketing social media.
Like, yeah, I get that.
It feels so ickily like histrionic or narcissistic.
I still struggle with that, but I try to think of it like I'm using myself and my image to try to communicate to someone who might feel that pain of loving someone with mental illness and for me to be like, I see you and I'm here for you, all right?
25:42
So it's really about like communicating someone's pain and saying, hey, I have the solution, or at least I'm willing to try to solve it for you.
So that is something that I'm really learning through this process of marketing.
And it's hard.
25:58
And I think that the thing that I'm learning is, you know, growing up, audience, growing, a podcast, growing, all these things.
It's like a lot of consistent daily work.
It is so hard to start your own business for people who think that this it's a way to like get out of the corporate world and like finally have the freedom.
26:19
Doing your own thing and building your own audience and brand or whatever is so hard because you have to do it every day.
I have to post every day.
I have to do this podcast every week, no matter where I am, what I'm doing, how I'm feeling right?
26:34
So it was it's and what it feels like, especially to build a business.
It's like you do things every day.
You do a lot of things every day.
You work tirelessly and you might not know if anything would work.
Like I post every day not knowing will I grow this account?
26:53
Will I reach the right people?
Like, you know, will I be people think I'm dumb that I'm just like posting these reels to a couple 100 people, right.
So it's a lot of like putting in the work every single day, not knowing if anything is actually going to hit or work and then just doing it anyway.
27:12
So I I'm not by by all means, I'm not saying that I'm a huge success right now.
I just, I just it's funny to watch at me do like posting every single day trying to learn a little bit about how social media works and how to make a reel.
I mean, it was to the point where in the beginning I was like, I don't even know how to how to post a reel.
27:31
Like I had only done Instagram where you just kind of photodump your vacation videos and you're like, look at my son.
Now I'm like, how do I put text over B roll?
You know all that stuff.
How do I talk to camera?
It's so hard to talk to camera.
27:47
I'm literally I'm in a room by myself talking to a camera, but I know that someone I don't even know who you guys are, but someone's going to hear this right?
That's a weird thing for me to have to be genuine and communicate to like the void sort of.
So I it's a lot of like feeling stupid, feeling lost and feeling like you're not doing anything.
28:10
And then it's like something there's a breakthrough and got 50,000 followers And this super cool thing that I love is that you guys have been reaching out to me a lot more booking calls with me, you know, or D Ming me through Instagram, some people who are new and just found the podcast just by Googling and some who've been listening for a long time.
28:35
And it's just like, wow, I finally get to not just talk into the void.
I finally get to talk to somebody and know that, you know, I'm talking to a mom who's scared for their 20 year old son who just is going psychotic and aggressive and not like the son that she always knew and loved because he's struggling with mental health or addiction or a woman who her husband is just lashing out to the kids and to her there he's going into rage spirals.
29:09
He's drinking more.
He feels out of control but knows that you know he's struggling and he's a good person inside, but she doesn't know who this person is anymore.
Like you people have been reaching out and I it's, it's been it's been I can't even I can't even tell you how much I appreciate it and how much I loved getting to know you.
29:35
And this work is hard, as I'm saying, like posting every day, but also like hearing a lot of these stories that you guys bring, bring me.
I just like when I, I want you to know that if you do talk to me and tell me your story, I feel it.
29:52
I really do feel it like I, you know, I sit there and do my like therapist like nodding and stuff like that but, and asking questions, but like my whole body feels that person's pain.
And sometimes when I talk to like 4 of you a day, I'm just like, I'm not enough.
30:11
Like I need, we need more help.
We need like families and you guys need more help.
I, I, I hate how much pain there is out in the world and, and how much you guys feel.
Anyway, I'm actually going on a tandem right now.
So it's hard.
It's really, it's really hard.
30:27
It's I wouldn't do anything else.
This is amazing and it's really interesting to be in this weird world.
I could, if I wanted something easy, I would have just opened up my private practice and been like, cool, give me a bunch of patience.
30:43
But I'm trying to do this thing where I'm trying to support the loved ones, caregivers, families with mental illness, people who actually do need help, but they like the way our whole healthcare system is set up.
They don't recognize it.
So I'm trying to speak to this new group in a way.
31:02
I guess you're not new but and it is hard like logistically, marketing wise and emotionally.
And I I really can only do it with the support of a team, which is like such a meta thing.
But I can only do this hard work with the right people to support this mission.
31:26
And I, I'm going to call them out.
Sita, who's my Co founder and partner, Jan is our designer and our media and marketing.
You know, he does like so much.
He's going to end this right now and send it to you.
So, and Nakshi is our clinical associate and they, I, there's a great team of Connor, Stephanie and Eden and my you and other people who have helped along the way.
31:53
And this work has weighed on me, right?
Like posting every day or hearing, hearing these stories, sometimes I just feel it in my body.
My body feels tired.
And yet the thing that gets me through is that I have this amazing team.
32:10
Like I mostly talked to Yaan Sedda and Meenakshi every day.
And they're just like always game.
They're always supportive, always kind, always come with come to me or to our team meetings with like more ideas for how to make this better.
32:27
And they like really are show up with heart and just watching them do that is sometimes enough for me to get through the hard days and to keep posting and to keep doing this podcast and just, you know, keep listening to really hard stories because I'm just like, damn, these people are amazing and they're pouring their hearts out into this mission And they, they support me, They have faith in me and they have faith in what we're doing and they're interested.
32:59
And so it just watching them keeps me motivated.
So it really does, it really does confirm the, the saying like teamwork really does make the dream work.
33:15
So support it's we in the US we always love to talk about like the one, the one Steve Jobs, right?
But for every Steve Jobs is a whole team behind them that makes something work.
It's just a weird fallacy.
It's a weird illusion in our culture that we want to talk about one person like the one front man or whatever.
33:37
But so much is done by teams and communities, right?
This is how we survived as human beings.
This is how we do anything.
So all the things that I'm saying, all the things that I'm doing, it's not me.
It's this amazing team that cares about you, really they do.
33:57
So get a good team, be consistent.
And it's, you know, if you want to do anything, it's going to suck for a while.
That's one thing I'm learning.
And then third is, you know, jumping off of what I'm saying that I hear from you, you guys all the time is like families are really struggling.
34:14
Families are struggling with mental illness in ways that shock me.
I have even talked about it on publicly on social media and people can't believe what I'm saying.
What I'm saying is I'm seeing families and loved ones fracture in ways that I've never seen before.
34:37
People are angry with each other.
Men hate men hate women that women hate men, parents hate their kids and the kids hate their parents.
Like there's just so much pain and anger.
It's really, it's really interesting because when I look back when COVID started, one of my brilliant wise clinical supervisors, Ron Batson, doctor, Doctor Batson, he said, you know, look at what's happening with the world, with, you know, the pandemic.
35:14
You're going to see a lot more floating anxiety.
People are going to be on upset and angry and they won't know why.
And I remember taking that in, that really hit me and it was weird because it was out of the time when COVID was like an emergency.
35:35
Like everyone was like go indoors.
Like there's a real panic and fear in the air.
So I was like, oh, floating anxiety.
I can understand that.
But now the years after, I'm really seeing that where people are just mad at each other and they feel unseen and they feel lost and they feel stuck and they don't know why, but they're mad at each other for it.
35:56
They're mad that that their partner is not helping them or seeing them.
They're mad that their parents didn't give them the tools or the security or for the support that they were looking for.
They're like everyone's mad at each other.
It's really highlighting even more mental illness is not a one person problem.
36:15
Once one person is struggling with BPD or narcissism or addiction or whatever, it's a system, right?
They're not the only ones who who are sick, right?
There's people who are screaming and threatening to hurt themselves, and then there's all the family around them that tries to keep that person safe, but they try to keep that person safe by unintentionally reinforcing that behavior.
36:41
And so everyone's stuck in this.
I don't know, people call it enabling, but they're stuck in these cycles of pain, unrelenting pain, unrelenting crisis.
So I'm seeing that so clearly.
And I'm seeing like this, this big divide, especially between boomer parents.
36:58
People were like in the 50s or 60s and then they're adult children like 20s or 30s or my age around 40's.
The funny thing is that you guys probably know that I get this on a very personal level.
My mom and I have had a lot of history of being emotionally dysregulated.
37:19
In the nicest way, she, if you don't know she's been, she had struggled with alcoholism for many years.
Miraculously, with her own hard work, got sober, but we've fought, we've had a horrible time.
We've both been mean to each other.
37:36
So I, I, I know what it's like to be mad at a boomer mom who like won't, who feels narcissistic and won't like recognize how you're feeling and being like texting her late and not like mommy.
You don't ever understand.
Like you are the reason why I'm like this, right?
37:53
Like I've done that.
I've been that kid, but I've also been on the other side and first of all, having a a kid myself who's emotionally intense, but also like working with moms and and dads who are rumors who are like my kid has BPD, they're 30 or 20 or something like that.
38:13
I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do to help them.
Everything I say they scream at me or they threaten to hurt themselves.
I am terrified.
And I'm also sick of this.
Like I want them out of my house.
I want them to go and have a family and be happy.
38:29
But they blame me for abusing them in ways that I don't even remember or I don't even know or I was just trying my best.
And I feel like I'm failing every day and I so I see both sides.
38:44
I just see this huge divide and I think that's it's not just parents have a tendency to blame themselves.
They say, oh, I've enabled my kid.
I was too soft.
Wouldn't there?
You know, I always sued them when they were upset and I feel like I overindulge them.
39:02
No, I always I always tell them this.
I always say, you know, all parents are trying their best.
It's not easy.
You're course you make mistakes and what worked back then might have not worked now.
And there are so many factors that also play into this great cultural family divide that I think it's like there's COVID that we never talk about anymore.
39:25
But it was like global trauma really.
It stopped the world.
We all had to, everyone around the world had to change their daily life and not see anyone because they're afraid of killing someone else, right?
So the world wasn't safe enough to explore and be a 20 year old and do stupid stuff because like, the world froze.
39:51
That's scary.
And it taught people to withdraw and go inward and go inside and go on their phones, not try new things because it's too scary to risk failing or risk doing something outward or, you know, experimenting, right?
40:09
So there's a lot of fear and anxiety and like withdraw that we have in the younger generation.
And there's also huge changes, right?
There's AI who might take everyone's jobs, I don't know, but there's so, so there's so much stress and uncertainty for these young 2030 year olds.
40:26
And then the boomers grew up in a time that's very different.
They were raised by people who went to war, right?
So they just learned, get married, have a couple kids, get a job, work hard at that job, work your way up and buy a house, get a mortgage.
40:42
And that's how you get happiness now.
It's very different.
The world is very different right now.
We're like, don't tell me to get a job.
Don't tell me to get a high achieving job.
Tell me that you understand what I'm feeling.
41:00
Tell me that you get what it did to me when you made fun of me when I was 15.
Like validate my feelings, see me and then the boomer parents are like, why?
But just go out and work.
41:16
So it's just like a big cultural shifts, a big misunderstanding and divide between these two groups.
And there's so much pain there.
And I mean, the lesson here is the, the interesting is interesting thing is I'm seeing more and more of this because I am talking to you and saying I help loved ones of people with mental illness.
41:45
I'm not saying if you have mental illness, come to me for therapy.
So I'm seeing this like world where people may not be in therapy.
People will not think that they, they, they're the ones who need the therapy.
But I'm seeing this pain, this emotional pain that's not being addressed.
42:03
And I'm only in the beginning of trying to solve it.
I just feel it, I see it, I hate it.
I want there to be more connection.
I want there to be more secure attachment that balances freedom to be yourself while being close to someone, right?
42:20
That's something that we're really not good at.
We're either like enmeshed, fixing each other's problems and like rescuing each other or cut off estrangement, right?
Let's get to that balance of like, I know you're there, I know you love me and you know we're close and I'm free to be myself.
42:38
I could have space.
You could say no to me, right?
I want to promote that more and more.
And yeah.
So this has just been a really eye opening year.
It's been painful.
It's been hard.
Weirdly enough, is like the year after I finished my horrifying year of breast cancer treatment, which man, I, I, I, I often overlook how hard that was.
43:04
I just really was in survival mode.
And then once I got out of it, I felt like life.
I just came back to life in this really like intense, chaotic way.
Fire horse here.
But I feel like this is the beginning.
I'm feeling breakthroughs.
43:20
I'm feeling like this is the beginning of something really amazing.
I can't describe it.
And I'm so grateful.
So I'm looking forward to season 7.
I'm going to get more guests, I'm going to talk about more things.
And I'm really, I really want to listen to you.
43:38
I really do.
So write those comments and YouTube is, is more of where people are finding me.
So like, go to YouTube, write some comments, reach out to me, talk to me.
I'm, I'm really trying to listen and digest and give you, you know, information on the things that you want to hear, the answers that you want to hear.
44:01
So if you have requests, I, I, I mean this, reach out to me, Kibby at coolamind.com is my e-mail, my direct e-mail.
Write to me and tell me what you want.
Tell me what you need.
Tell me what you're going through.
We're building this community together.
44:18
I'm not doing this alone.
I might be on camera the face of it, but it's this is this is bigger than me and I'm so grateful for it.
So thank you all for being here.
You know, especially through the big change in our in our podcast, in this, the cohost situation or for the for the new people who just found me and are coming in new.
44:45
I'm grateful for all of you.
And this really is a group effort.
So teamwork does make the dream work.
I'm going to take a break for one week and then I won't be back.
I want to hear what you want for season 7.
And if you, if any of this resonates and you, you know, appreciate what I'm talking about, send it to a friend.
45:08
Really, this is what we're trying to do here is to spread more awareness to how mental illness is not a one person problem.
So then this is someone who might like it.
Love you all.
I'll see you in two weeks little helpers by accessing this.
45:27
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45:48
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46:15
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46:35
Thank you.