Ep. 206 - BPD Splitting: Why Someone Can Go From Loving You to Hating You

What happens when someone you love suddenly goes from seeing you as their safest person to seeing you as the enemy? In this episode, Dr. Kibby breaks down “splitting,” the all-good or all-bad thinking often associated with borderline personality disorder and other intense emotional struggles. She explores why it happens, how overwhelming emotions can shape someone’s view of themselves and others, and what loved ones can do to stay grounded, set boundaries, and respond without getting pulled into the extremes.

• Transcript

  0:00

  Hi guys, welcome to a little help for.

  Our Friends a podcast for people with loved ones struggling with mental.

  Health Hey little helpers, today I'm going to be talking about splitting.

  So splitting is when someone, especially when they are in the heat of the moment, feeling intense emotions, sees themselves, are you as all good or all bad?

  0:25

  Those ups and downs and extremes when it comes to people that you love who are struggling with their intense emotions.

  And this term is usually talked about in the context of someone with borderline personality disorder, but narcissistic personality disorder and just other people like who suffer from trauma or have any other kind of intense emotions tend to do.

  0:49

  But it's most commonly in BPD before I dive into it, if you are close to someone with borderline personality disorder or another kind of mental illness or addiction, that's really hard for you to navigate.

  1:04

  You care about them.

  You want to be there for them, but find it really, really hard to do so.

  And you feel overwhelmed, like you're losing yourself.

  That is all of what I do.

  I help people like you so my program Koolamine KUL AM Ind.

  1:21

  You can check it online, check it out koolamine.com or check out the link in the show notes.

  But that is my program where I help a lot of loved ones, mostly parents and partners of people who are struggling.

  1:38

  And I do a lot of hands on support as much as I can.

  So we meet in groups and I teach the skills I talk about here on the podcast.

  I meet with people one-on-one or do messaging support.

  1:53

  But I really help people know how to support and love that person in their lives while not losing themselves.

  So learning how to set boundaries and healthy ways, how to validate and communicate, how to understand what's going on.

  So if you are struggling with loving someone with intense emotions or BPD, check out coolamind.com or just reach out to me in any way you'd like and ask about it and I'd be happy to help.

  2:20

  So why splitting?

  As you include Coolamind and especially talking to you guys and talking to people who have loved ones with BPDI think splitting has been one of the most scary and confusing and disorienting parts of BPD.

  2:40

  When you hear about extreme ups and downs and emotions and relationships, this is what we're talking about.

  It is like one minute, you are the best and you're the only person who really gets it and you're like the soulmate and you're perfect.

  2:58

  And I you know, it's almost like you want to fuse into one person, right?

  It's like this like fantasy kind of you're my savior kind of love.

  And then the next minute you're the enemy.

  Nothing you did.

  You know, you don't love me, you never loved me, nothing you do.

  3:15

  I believe I can't trust you.

  We're done.

  You're the worst, right?

  And it's kind of mind blowing to be on the receiving end of that.

  To one minute be someone's savior and the next minute be their perpetrator, their enemy, their monster.

  It leaves the loved ones really confused because they're like, am I was IA monster?

  3:37

  What was I perfect?

  Was anything real, right?

  It's really disorienting and it's really, no, it's really hard to know how to manage that because especially if this is someone you love, not only does it feel really unstable, but it also can affect the way you see yourself, the relationship, right?

  3:54

  Like your sense of safety.

  So I think splitting is one of the features of BPD that it is really, really hard for the loved ones.

  So in this episode I'll talk about what splitting is.

  4:10

  It's kind of an old term.

  So I'll talk about in the context of modern research.

  I'll talk about why it happens, different theories about why splitting happens, treatments for it and what loved ones should do when they see their see someone split them or against them and to give a little bit of a picture of what this looks like.

  4:38

  I of course dealt with this a lot when I was a DPT therapist and work with people with BPD and it was it really was one of the more heartbreaking parts of working with them.

  When you first meet someone who with BPD and start working with them as a therapist often because they're there in the office with you and looking for help, they are idealizing you, right?

  5:06

  You get the all good.

  Oh, you finally get it.

  I'm so glad I found you.

  You.

  I can really trust you.

  I'm going to I've never told anyone this.

  I'm really opening up.

  I I was, you know, so hopeless before I met you, right?

  And you get this like, wow, OK, this is amazing, right?

  5:26

  And then I remember there was this one time, this was one of the more heartbreaking therapy moments, but I had this really good relationship with a patient.

  I won't go into so many details that identifying, but someone with BPDI had such a good relationship with them.

  5:43

  I saw them for a good amount of time, like almost a year.

  And it was beautiful.

  Like I could see their heart.

  It was, there's such a tender, wonderful person, really thoughtful, really connected and really did well in therapy, really worked well together.

  6:03

  I so regret this.

  And then one day I was off my game.

  I had travelled recently before that moment and I was also going through infertility treatments.

  I wasn't disclosing that to my patient, of course, but I was just sitting there zoned out.

  6:21

  I was just really was onked.

  I was really battling all the different anxiety feelings that the hormones and the medication we're making and I was just so tired.

  So I was just kind of sitting there like this.

  And generally I'm pretty good at having a poker face, right?

  6:37

  Even when I'm going through hard times.

  I've even saw patients through cancer.

  I, I can, I can really show up right that day.

  I, I thought I was showing up, but I was just kind of sitting there silently and kind of like, and I regrettably, they were explaining a problem with their ex that they were having.

  7:03

  And it was this kind of unhealthy cycle of getting in and out of this relationship a lot.

  And I, I can't believe I said this.

  I said, well, you know, what do you want to do about it?

  What do you think?

  What do you think the best choice is?

  7:20

  Because if you keep doing what you're doing and staying in this relationship, you might get the same results like this might keep happening again.

  I meant to say something like, how do we break out of this?

  How do you know like that you can do something to change this, you know, or let's talk about what you want, like how you want to cope with this.

  7:42

  They heard it as me saying this is your fault and if you don't do anything about it, you, you deserve what this feels like or something in the session.

  I didn't, I didn't see any problems, right?

  We just had the conversation and the session and we left.

  7:59

  But then they sent me a text that says it's clear that you judge me and you don't think I'm capable of work.

  You know, just you don't think I'm capable of this and you think it's all my fault and you're blame me and you're, you're the worst therapist, right?

  8:15

  And then they said they didn't want to come back to therapy.

  I was so devastated.

  Like it was one of my first BBD patients and I was so devastated because I was so happy that we had built such a good foundation.

  8:33

  Like we had so many months of working really well together and, and not just easy happy, happy why we've talked about serious things.

  I had given them feedback before, so I was blown away.

  I was like, whoa, how did I mess up this badly?

  8:50

  Send an apology text offered.

  You know, I'd love to talk about it again.

  I'm, I'm here if you need.

  So I, I, I did my best, but they decided to stop therapy until a couple weeks later, a couple months later, maybe it was like 2 months or something.

  9:08

  They, the, I guess the split softened and they asked to come back.

  And unfortunately I, I was working for a DBT clinic and they filled my spot in that time.

  So it was just, it was really an unfortunate situation.

  9:25

  And people who are close to someone with BPD are so familiar with this, right, that you have so many memories of doing well-being good to each other, you know, supporting them, loving them, reassuring them that you're there for them.

  9:43

  And then one, one thing, one fight, one misunderstanding, one feeling of being criticized or rejected.

  And it's like everything comes crashing down.

  It's like nothing you did matters in that moment.

  9:58

  And it's like, what happened?

  What do I do?

  So that is, you know, one of my biggest memories of seeing that split and unfortunately not being able to bridge that gap.

  And so you have a lot, lot of ups and downs.

  10:14

  And what it looks like is that person, when they're upset or they feel rejected by you, you're all bad.

  And it's almost kind of like they have no memory of the good times, right?

  You might be there saying, hey, wait, but don't you remember when I, you know, supported you at your play and blah, blah, blah.

  10:33

  It's it's almost like it didn't, doesn't exist anymore and they only see the bad and vice versa, the good, right?

  So that is, that is what splitting can look like and feel like.

  To be clear, we don't use the word splitting anymore.

  10:51

  I think it was a little bit more common back in the olden days before we knew more about BPD to describe what happens when there's a big treatment team or when there's a family or group that someone with BPD might be in.

  And they will split the providers or the treatment team or the family, you know, in in two different ways.

  11:14

  Some people will be, oh, that you're the the best doctor.

  You're the, you're the greatest.

  I'll listen to you.

  My, this other doctor on my treatment team, they're bad.

  They don't trust me and I don't trust them.

  And so then what happens is like a fight, an internal fight between the family members or the treatment team.

  11:31

  That was the old version of what was the term splitting was used for, but now we understand a little bit more.

  So what is splitting again?

  We don't use that word splitting anymore.

  But that all good or all bad that you see with BPD is when positive and negative parts of a person or relationship can't be integrated, can't be put into one hole.

  12:01

  So if any of you have seen Inside Out too, you'll know what I'm talking about.

  If you haven't, go out and see it.

  But I think that inside out to from the Disney movie really perfectly showed what integration and healthy integration looks like.

  12:22

  So in spoiler alert, I'll tell a little bit about the the the movie.

  But in that in the movie, the main character, Riley is becoming an adolescent and there's all these feelings and, and adolescence and puberty is really a time where people define their personality, right?

  12:39

  Their identity, who they are in relation to their friend group and their family and everything like that.

  And what Riley has to go through is that she's experimenting with all these different friend groups and identities and things like that, and she has such a hard time blending them and making sense of who she is and how she feels.

  13:00

  And at the end, I'm not giving way too much with this, but they show a beautiful example of integration.

  When instead of someone say I'm a bad person or I'm a good person, it's like I could be good sometimes and I could be bad other times.

  13:17

  I'm really good at this and I'm not so good at this other stuff.

  And that makes sense to everyone else, right?

  Like my husband can be is a great person and there's some things that he does that bother me, right?

  13:33

  So it's taking all the good and bad and, and making it into a whole, right?

  So that's what healthy development, healthy integration looks like.

  And when you don't have that, you get the splitting where it really feels like the all bad lives in one representation, we call it, or the all good lives in another representation.

  13:53

  And they're really separate, right?

  It's not there.

  You aren't able to say I'm a good, I have good parts and bad parts.

  It's I'm the worst or I'm the best and ever that one else is the worst, right?

  There's like this compartmentalizing that happens.

  14:11

  There's no Gray area.

  It's either all good or all bad, all black, all white, right?

  No Gray.

  So where does splitting come from?

  Like what it what, what is it?

  Why?

  Why is there a a problem with integrating all the good and bad parts of a person or relationship?

  14:30

  Old psychodynamic theory is called object relations theory.

  Talks a lot about.

  How we develop our sense of self and our idea of the of love.

  And relationships in the world.

  Through our caregivers, through the objects, which is mom or dad or brother or caregiver, babysitter, right?

  14:50

  That objects are just people, right?

  So we develop our understanding of who we are, our understanding of us as a separate autonomous person through these relationships, right?

  And when kids are really little, they have a hard time integrating all the different things, right?

  15:11

  Like my dad could be great, but also he messes up a lot of the time, right?

  So it takes some developing and maturity for the baby to grow up and say, OK, my mom is a good mom, but she messes up sometimes, right?

  15:29

  It's either you're the best mom, you're amazing.

  And I and I, I'm totally dependent on you or you're the worst, right?

  And so when babies are too young to integrate the good and the bad, right, it's just easier, right?

  15:47

  It's easier for you to tell a fairy tale to a kid where there's a good guy and a bad guy, right?

  It's too complex and it's sometimes anxiety provoking to be like, here's the bad guy in the story.

  But he has some good.

  16:04

  Qualities and so he's a complex person, right?

  That's very hard for a kid to understand.

  So in order to sometimes protect their caregivers that they're fully dependent on right Mommy is completely dependent on this person.

  16:22

  They will split off the bad stuff right?

  You are all good and daddy's a bad one more than it switches, right?

  So that's why, you know, you know, in a mommy phase or daddy phase, right, there's one caregiver who I'm totally dependent on and they're all good and everything else is bad because it's too complex and confusing and scary to be like, mom's a great mom, but she really messes up when she drinks, right?

  16:50

  That risk of, Oh my God, I'm fully dependent on this person and they're, it could come crashing down.

  It's too much for kids to handle to cope with.

  So it really is like a survival mechanism and a really quick survival mechanism, right?

  17:06

  Like we happen, we, we do this, we think this way in anxiety too, right?

  If you got into a car crash and you're like, Oh my God, the risk of getting into a car crash is too scary to tolerate.

  17:22

  I can't even possibly think about that.

  So I you, you might treat all cars as like it's all bad.

  It's all dangerous, right?

  I can't even bear the the risk of getting into a car because I might die, right?

  17:38

  So it's a real survival mechanism to just be like, whoop, Nope, this is all bad.

  I'm, I'm, I'm avoiding it entirely, right?

  Unfortunately, I do think that society has split a lot more, right?

  We're so polarized.

  Either if you're in this political camp, then you're good, and if you're not, you're bad.

  17:58

  And either we are obsessive and we really look up to our celebrities or they're the worst, right?

  So, you know, the split is happening in many different ways because it just scrubs out the nuance.

  It's just easier.

  It's easier to be like, my ex is a narcissist and I don't want to speak to him ever again because he's evil versus he is generally A flawed person with some really good stuff or some really bad stuff.

  18:28

  And I'm just going to have to make the call to not be with this person because the bad outweigh the good, right?

  That's that's harder than just like asshole, get out, get out of here, right.

  So that is a sign of, I don't want to say immaturity, but lack of development of being able to integrate.

  18:45

  Because if you're seeing things as all good or all bad, you're not using the mature ability to see complexity or nuance and be able to hold it and be like these two things that look opposite.

  I could love this person.

  19:01

  Sometimes I really hate them and they could exist in one thing, right?

  So that that development might not be there.

  And I to be frank, we don't know exactly why someone develops this.

  Splitting is no longer a term used in research.

  19:20

  We we use other, we look at other processes and splitting like dichotomous thinking is a big 1A Dichotomous thinking is people who are like all good or all bad, right?

  One or the other, zero or one, It's perfect or it's trash.

  19:37

  I'm amazing and lovable, or I'm worthless and everyone hates me.

  You are my savior or the worst, right?

  That's dichotomous thinking.

  There's just zero and one.

  That's it, right?

  Along with that, there are other kinds of psychological processes that happen around that.

  19:56

  One is the identity disturbance.

  So if you think about it, actually there's this really cool research showing showing that.

  The emotion dysregulation in BPD is what causes the identity disturbance.

  Because if you are fluctuating from like all good, all bad, mom's good, mom's bad, partner's good, all bad, right?

  20:19

  Then you look at yourself, I'm all good or all bad.

  And instead of it feeling like a stable thing, it's like a light switch and you don't know what's on or off and you don't know what's the real thing.

  So people who have BPDN have this intense identity serpents, they'll split in themselves, right?

  20:38

  I'm all over the place.

  I'm good or bad.

  I'm I'm this one character, the villain or I'm the protagonist, right?

  So it's it's so confusing to not have the sense of integrated core self that integrates all these different parts to it, right?

  20:57

  You have night and day.

  You don't have like Twilight, right?

  So identity disturbance is a big one, but also when someone is in that dichotomous thinking, they're like, I only see the bad or I only see the good.

  21:16

  You're scrubbing out the nuance.

  And that nuance is cognitive flexibility, like your ability to think outside the box and think differently to see the bigger picture, right?

  So if I'm like all bad, all bad, all bad, right?

  21:34

  I'm in, I'm in my all bad mode, then I'm not going to think maybe there's another reason why they said what they said, or maybe they're, maybe they didn't mean well and maybe I'm good, right?

  That is, that takes cognitive flexibility, the ability to bring in other pieces of information, other thoughts, other possibilities, right?

  21:57

  Seeing the bigger picture, that's gone with dichotomous thinking.

  It's it's A or B night and day, right?

  So you have a lot of problems in when someone is in that mode that they can't see the nuance, which means they can't see your perspective.

  22:16

  They can't mentalize, meaning they can't think about how you saw things or heard things and how you feel, right?

  It's just one and you don't think about the counter evidence to the all bad, right?

  22:32

  So you're just like I'm I'm just not going to deal with the complexity at all.

  I'm going to wipe away those other details that don't fall in line with what I'm thinking and I'm only going to think all good or all bad, right.

  But just being clear, the whole point of that was that researchers, psychology researchers don't have this one idea of what splitting is.

  22:54

  We haven't been able to like measure, ah, the, the splitting that's happening.

  It's all these different things that are happening.

  And to to make this a little bit more to understand, like what's going on with this splitting, imagine the time when you were like the most angry, right?

  23:20

  The most intent, having an intense emotion or maybe PMS or something when you feel like nothing is going right, right?

  When that happens, emotions, think of it less like, just like an emotion, think of it as a network, right?

  23:37

  And an emotion is a network of feelings in your body, memories, behaviors, thoughts, right?

  And sometimes when I get really angry, it brings back memories of what it was like when I was super angry and there was nothing else, right.

  23:58

  So I might be doing things I used to do when I was an angry teenager, like storming around.

  I might have thoughts that it almost kind of like, it's kind of like you're wearing rose colored glasses, but the opposite where you look back on your whole relationship and it's like it was all bad.

  24:21

  You're only seeing red, right?

  You're only seeing the bad stuff and your mind narrows and focuses on that.

  And then I'm going to start acting like a teenager.

  I might be, I might, you know, walk quickly, listen to certain music, have different feelings in my body, like wanting to like exercise, right?

  24:40

  So that emotion is bringing up a state like a network of all the different versions of me that is like anger, right?

  And most of the time, if we're integrated, we could go into those states, but still haven't I like a core foundation like, oh, I'm angry.

  25:01

  However, it is in my values not to curse at people.

  So I'm going to be angry, but I just don't do that even when I'm angry, right?

  For some people, those states of emotion, it's like 2 different people, right?

  25:17

  When you're angry versus when you're sad and hurt, it can feel and look like totally different people if they're not integrated, right?

  If they have more of that, the compartmentalized parts with the good and the bad are split off inside you.

  25:34

  And schema therapy, which is a cognitive therapy for personality disorders and other kind of conditions.

  They talk about modes, which I think is really cool and they label them.

  So with BPD, there's like a child mode or a protector mode, right?

  25:50

  So based on their mood and what network, what version of them is alive and activated in that moment, they could act like a child, like really scared and young and overwhelmed and and immature in those other ways or protect her angry, lashing out.

  26:10

  Like, you know, so we talk about modes in schema therapy because it just feels like two different people, right?

  So that is what happens when things are when your personality is not integrated.

  It's like all these pieces and it's like what character is turned on at any given moment?

  26:27

  And this tends to happen in BPD, I'm sure for a lot of other people when there is an intense mood, right?

  Like normally I'm, you know, like I could be a chill person, but if I'm PMS and I'm like, I'm a totally different person, right?

  26:47

  So sometimes like the emotion is what switches a person from all good or all bad, right?

  We're not all good, all bad, but like the seeing themselves or other people is all good or all bad, right?

  If I'm happy, everything's good.

  27:02

  If I'm bad, if if I'm not happy, I feel rejected or something bad happens, you're not there for me or I needed you and you're out there and it's suddenly you're, you're you're dead to me kind of thing.

  So emotion in that moment is really a really determines what flips someone from the all good or all bad.

  27:27

  And it's a it's really some, some psychologists will say that it's like a primitive defense mechanism.

  It's a it, which means that it's something that young kids, as I mentioned, will do to protect themselves.

  But what do they?

  Why do they need to protect themselves?

  27:42

  Why do you even need to split?

  Well, as I kind of mentioned before, you may be at a level where one small risk of something quote bad or unwanted is intolerable.

  Like you can't deal with that.

  Like let's say I could even you think that inside you, right?

  28:03

  Where in general I feel like a good person, but if I have one part of me that I feel really shamed of, like my angry part that I mentioned and that's bad, that's bad.

  If that that little piece of vadnais is too threatening, like it's just I can't tolerate it, then I'll do everything to try to push it away and make it make it like something that's not a part of me.

  28:28

  Right?

  Like, and you see this in BPD lot where someone can be very aggressive, very like say things that are really hurtful, really angry, but that is their that is their bad part, right?

  28:47

  That's the part that they feel a lot of shame around or they feel really threatened about.

  But that part is something that they just can't tolerate having even a little bit of, right?

  Then you get the split.

  Then it's like, I don't want that part of me.

  Get it out of me.

  It's you.

  It's not me, right?

  29:03

  So it's when that little part of that person can't integrate because it's too threatening.

  And that happens when someone's really punished for a part of them, right?

  Like you're a bad kid.

  If you were angry, you're a bad kid.

  29:20

  Don't do this.

  Don't be like this.

  Be this other thing.

  Then they learned that there is parts of me that are intolerable and I can't have it.

  I can't admit and include that as a part of who I am, right?

  And it also happens with abuse.

  We talk about this a lot in transference focus therapy.

  29:40

  So that's a psychodynamic therapy that I trained in that is for especially BPD and a narcissistic personality disorder.

  But it really talks about this split and really works on it as the primary thing that the therapy focuses on.

  29:58

  So they say like if you, for example, have been abused or neglected or just mistreated by caregiver, right?

  You see the caregiver or the perpetrator as the monster, right?

  The abuser, and then I'm the victim, right?

  30:17

  The idea that you can be a part like that, that is part of you, like as part of your memory or any, any suggestion that you could be like that parent or that abuser that you can be aggressive to or you could hurt people is so scary that you're like, Nope, Nope, Nope.

  30:37

  I'm not that person.

  I'm not, I'm not that abusive, right.

  So it happens when just even a piece of that part or that version of you, you, you just can't, you can't tolerate.

  30:53

  It's so bad and so threatening that you just need to push it away, right.

  So we see that with, with patients with BPD where they, you know, can be pretty abusive sometimes.

  I mean, everyone can, right?

  31:09

  Don't be fair.

  Everyone can.

  But if they're abusive, like let's say they yell at someone or hurt someone or like, you know, are physically violent and the other person later on says, hey, whoa, you were abusive or you hurt me, they go, no, I didn't, right?

  31:26

  Because it is is too threatening to say, yeah, sometimes I can be aggressive.

  Sometimes I could be violent.

  Just like I suffered from, right?

  The idea that I could be anything like the the person who hurt me, my abuser, is I, I can't even Nope, Nope, not even not a part of my reality and my view of myself.

  31:51

  So you're left with that, right?

  You're left with.

  Wait a minute.

  You think that you're not you.

  You, you see yourself as a victim all the time, but you've been really hurtful to me.

  I think I feel like the victim in these scenarios.

  This is the problem with splitting, right?

  They are pushing out part of them that they don't want.

  32:11

  So it's this problem of like not tolerating any threat at all, right?

  The idea that I could be an angry kid sometimes or I could be aggressive or something is something that is so threatening that I would lose my sense of self.

  I would lose my family and would lose everything I love.

  32:28

  I would not be unsafe.

  So push it away.

  When we think about that, about splitting, we think about like, what is So what is what?

  Why is seeing things in the Gray area or the complexity so threatening?

  32:45

  Well with BPD, the idea that they will be abandoned or alone, right?

  That they don't they're they're unloved and left defenseless.

  Kind of like how kids, you know, feel that is so threatening to them that if they feel even one drop of criticism, rejection or pulling away from their loved ones, they go into, oh, oh, threat is happening, right?

  33:10

  You are not safe.

  You are not safe.

  I can't even deal with the uncertainty of maybe you'll stay, maybe I'll go.

  I'm just going to say you're the you're bad and I'm going to X you out, right?

  Because the fact of the matter is that relationships and people and you and me and there there's a lot of uncertainty.

  33:30

  There's a lot of good and bad, right?

  Like even in in the best relationships of the best people that you know, you don't know, you don't know if they're going to hurt you, right?

  And that uncertainty is just on, it's like not tolerable for people with PPD.

  33:46

  So they're just like, Nope, exit out.

  So how do therapists treat splitting and borderline personality disorder?

  So there's like two major ways.

  And this could inform a little bit about what loved ones can do, right?

  34:02

  What you can do a response.

  So in dialectical behavior therapy and DBT, it's all about emotion regulation.

  It's about if an emotion is turning on a network of a version of you, like the angry, the child mode, the the protector mode, angry the the abuser, the victim, right?

  34:22

  Like if emotions are what is turning on the switches, then work to regulate those emotions.

  So regulating your body right with breathing skills, putting ice on your face, working out right, intense exercise, like all the kind of distress tolerance skills to bring the intensity of the emotion down, which would then affect the way they're seeing things, right?

  34:49

  Are they saying everything is good or everything is bad?

  When the emotions calm down a little bit and the person is no longer in like survival mode, then they can start to see nuances again, right?

  So they can see a little bit more Gray and kind of tolerate a little bit of difference.

  35:07

  So DBT definitely uses emotion regulation skills.

  Another thing they do is they use the word and and that is a very easy strategy to promote what they call dialectical thinking.

  35:26

  So DBT is totally founded on a philosophy of dialectics, which can look at two things that seem opposite, but saying that they can both be true at the same time, right?

  35:43

  Yin and Yang.

  So instead of saying but or or it's and so instead of saying you're you, you said you loved me, but you do things to make me feel unloved, right?

  36:04

  The but cancels out one side the and makes them allow them both to exist, right?

  So just using the word and when you talk about these different non integrated parts, you said you loved me and you do things that really hurt my feelings and make me feel unloved.

  36:25

  You are a good person and you have some flaws, right?

  It's not you a good person, but you have flaws, right?

  Because then you're only going to hear the flaws part.

  But using and and really practicing that in the way you speak, in the way you think, I have good about yourself, about your loved ones, about relationships, right?

  36:51

  I have a lot of good parts, but I also have parts that could be worked on.

  I'm perfect the way I am and I could change some of my behavior, right?

  So allowing the different things that sound like they should be put in different boxes or different versions into one hole.

  37:11

  So that's how DBT works with with us splitting or diagnose thinking. 1 is the emotion regulation, bring the emotion down.

  And two, using and and really allowing for tooth practicing seeing the good and the bad at the same time, right?

  37:31

  And making them into one hole in transference focus therapy.

  It's really interesting because since it's psychodynamic, it really wants to work with bringing out those all those different parts, bringing out the two parts of the conflict and just letting the patient see it, recognize it, and naturally integrate them.

  37:52

  Really complicated, but the way it looks like is the therapist is like psychodynamics, like psychoanalytic, very like blank slate in the way that it's like I'm just going to allow you, the patient to bring in everything, right?

  You generate the the perception of me and judgements and all the things inside you and kind of projected into the space and therapy.

  38:15

  And what this looks like is the therapist is pretty neutral and the patient starts to learn how to talk about the here and now, right?

  What do I feel and what do I see in you and this relationship right now in therapy?

  38:31

  So it's a lot talking about the relationship as it's happening, right?

  A lot of meta talk.

  But the trick is when someone with BPD brings out these two different unintegrated sides, right?

  38:47

  Like I'm the victim and you're the abuser.

  It's a classic 1 they'll see things as all are like no nuance.

  I'm the pure victim and you are the bad person trying trying to hurt me and I didn't do anything to deserve to to make this happen.

  39:05

  I, I I'm completely helpless.

  You are complete control right?

  This this huge extreme characterizations of the relationship.

  The therapist in that moment stays, is trained to stay neutral, not take on that side.

  Like, oh, but yeah, I, I, I am a little judge mental, but this is the reason why I'm judge mental, right?

  39:28

  So it's not stepping into Yep, I'm going to take the abuser role and defend myself or, you know, be that be in that role.

  So instead of the therapist taking one side of the polarization, right, yes, I am the abuser.

  39:43

  I'm I'm the worst.

  Oh my gosh, I really hurt you.

  I'm blah, blah, blah.

  Is they say neutral and they just allow the patient to observe it, right?

  I noticed that you see me as the, you know, the abuser who hurts you, who has bad intentions and you as the as the victim.

  40:04

  Let's talk about that, right?

  So over and over, just bringing that to attention, you have this representation, this network for abuser and victim, so.

  The therapist role is to be really, really neutral and just allow space for all these different parts, the good, the bad, the child mode, the protector mode, to just emerge and just let the patient see them and also practice accepting them.

  40:37

  Right?

  That's the thing that all therapists do is instead of saying, Yep, that's a bad part, you should feel ashamed about that and hide it.

  But be like, yes, that is a part of you and that's hard and you feel ashamed about it and it's there.

  40:52

  So how can we relate to a differently?

  How can we learn to accept it?

  We don't have to love it, but allow it to be there.

  Allow it to be a part of you, right?

  So that is like 2 of the major ways that in therapy they treat splitting or the dichotomous thinking.

  41:11

  But here is what you should do as a loved 1.

  So if you our partner or parent or a sibling of someone with BPD or just tends to split when they see you as all good, all good or all bad and they switch to the bad, right.

  41:32

  This is also like devaluing.

  They might break up with you and you know, like this is also present too.

  This is not as strongly, but it's also present too.

  When someone, when you're dealing with someone with narcissistic personality disorder, right, you're perfect amazing and on a pestle or you're garbage.

  So when you get when you see that shift, the first thing to do is don't go along with that shift.

  41:54

  And this is what I mean.

  I they are reacting emotionally, right?

  And their view of you and the world is just colored by that emotion.

  Don't lash back out when they're they're in the all bad.

  42:14

  And don't be yes, yes, we're perfect when it's all good.

  That that becomes a toxic cycle of like ups and downs and we're either fighting and terrible or we're amazing.

  So try to stay consistent, right and be consistent across the ups and downs.

  42:30

  I love you.

  I'm here for you.

  I will not I I can't accept this behavior.

  So really, you know, make putting boundaries around the behavior, right?

  I love you.

  I'm here for you And if you're going to hit me or if you're going to insult me, I I'm going to walk away because it's too it.

  42:52

  I'm I'm scared for my safety.

  I want to stay safe, right.

  So instead of like you're the worst.

  Yeah, I'm.

  This is garbage.

  I'm done with you too.

  And walking out saying I love you.

  And when you're screaming at me like this, it is too painful.

  So I'm here.

  43:08

  But right now I'm going to keep myself safe by walking away.

  All right, So staying like the anchor in the storm, as I like to say.

  Another thing is really dealing with the emotions, so this is a great time to practice validation, which I am I hesitant to hesitate to say because it's really hard when someone is like in their full.

  43:37

  Some people call it fire brain or the the all bad.

  But when they're fully in that mode and they hate you and you're the worst, they're going to say really hurtful things, right?

  They're going to be like you don't care and you're you're a monster and you're toxic about right, like breaking up with you.

  43:53

  And it's hard to validate emotions in that moment.

  If you can, you are a rock star, right?

  You could set boundaries around the behavior, but validate the emotion.

  So if you could let the details what they're saying kind of blow past you for a second and go to the emotion that's feeling that fire, right, that's turned, let the light switch on that.

  44:14

  I got to think of a better metaphor.

  This is just like floating around to different metaphors, you know what I mean?

  Like the anger and the hurt that's flaring up the all bad, right?

  That's got there in survival mode.

  You could validate their emotion there, especially the softer emotion, right?

  44:31

  You see the anger, you might see the anger or you might see like intense depression or but if you can get to the hurt or the shame, that could be even more powerful.

  You could say instead of saying, yeah, you're right on the worst, validating their emotion would look like I I see how not responding to your text made you feel so unloved and hurt you and now you're furious with me.

  44:58

  I, I, I get that right?

  Don't go into the arguing, but wait, you know, it's not what you think it is, blah blah.

  Validate the emotion.

  Say I get how this situation is leading to this emotion, Hurt, shame, pain, fear.

  I get that feeling distant from me leaves you feeling alone and paralyzed and terrified, right?

  45:21

  So validating the emotion is a big thing that you can do in that moment when you see the big split, the temptation to give the counter evidence.

  Try not to do it right.

  45:39

  When someone goes, you're the worst.

  You never loved me, you never supported me, you've always hurt me.

  You're a villain, right?

  It sees you as all bad.

  And it's like seeing your whole relationship history as bad.

  You're the worst parent.

  45:54

  You've never been there.

  For me, it is natural for you to have the urge to argue against that, right?

  But wait, what about all the times that I was there for you and when you were crying about your breakup and I was supporting you and told you that I loved you and I'm always here for you?

  46:15

  It doesn't that count?

  I've definitely done that myself is so natural because you want to convince that person that you actually do love them and you're not.

  It's not this like all terrible view of this like you want to you you're tempted to bring in the the bigger picture, right, the good times, right.

  46:36

  However, when someone is in that totally dysregulated state, when they're so upset and dominated by emotion, those that counter evidence those the arguments you have of like, wait, this what about this one time that I did tell you I love you or was there?

  46:55

  The brain will encode that as an exception, right?

  It's like just circumstance.

  Yeah, but you were there for me because, you know, it was on your way home from school or you were just trying to be, you know, trying to get me to like you or say nice things to you.

  47:13

  Like there's always excuses when it's when a brain is like in full, in a full mode, right?

  Of really just regulated all the other pieces of information that goes against it will be explained away.

  47:28

  So it's useless.

  It's useless for you to be like, but wait.

  Remember when I did this for you and that for you and I've made that mistake before and it doesn't help.

  It doesn't help.

  It just makes you seem like you're trying to invalidate them, which is so frustrating, but it makes you seem like you're trying to argue against what they're feeling right.

  47:47

  I I get it.

  They're you're what you're arguing against is their perception how they're seeing you, right?

  You've always hated me.

  You've always done this.

  You never loved me.

  And you're saying, wait a minute, I have evidence to prove that's wrong, right?

  48:05

  That that perception of me, that I'm always unloving.

  I will give you different examples of how that is wrong.

  Don't you feel better?

  It doesn't work because they're they're just fully putting on those rose colored colored glasses and seeing only red.

  48:26

  And if you're like, hey, there's some blue stuff over here, They're like, I don't see it.

  So don't even try to argue and try to bring in the other parts, not until they've calmed down a little bit.

  So try validating them.

  You could try walking through different ways of helping them calm down, helping them feel safe, whether it's take a break, take a walk, do distress tolerance skills, splashing cold water in their face.

  48:51

  You know they talk to their therapist, right?

  All different ways of helping them regulate their nervous system.

  Then they'll have the cognitive, the capacity, the brain power to be able to see and take in those other good points that you're bringing in.

  49:09

  So don't argue, but deal with the emotion, right?

  And the last thing that I'll say about how to deal with a loved one splitting is try not to reinforce it.

  This is tricky, but sometimes what I see is that when someone splits and goes into full like you're the worst mom, you're the you know, you never do anything for me.

  49:38

  My whole life is a disaster.

  It's all because we're like the all bad.

  Sometimes loved ones out of pure unfair survival mode, out of pure love and trying to calm them down.

  Well then accidentally reinforce that behavior by giving in placating, giving them support, right, Just like people please like doing whatever they want.

  50:02

  I've seen parents give money, tell them fine, you're, you're right, I'm wrong.

  I'm the worst parent.

  I'm terrible.

  Or letting them have the car or letting them have full reign of the house or doing whatever they want, right.

  So it's suddenly submitting and being like, fine, fine, fine, fine when that person is in the full split, just regulated really.

  50:27

  And that I wouldn't recommend that because that might accidentally reinforce their behavior, what they're doing when they're in the all bad mode, right?

  Then their fire brain mode.

  If they are yelling at you and punishing you and blaming you and you give them whatever they want, give them attention, drop everything, help them, give them money, right?

  50:51

  You're like you're saying, hey, this is a way that you get what you need, right?

  If you yell at me and scream with me, you're going to get what you need, right?

  So try not to accidentally reinforce the behaviors when they split.

  Instead, again, picture yourself as an anchor in a storm and what your what your role is is to stay steady, protect yourself from anything that's unsafe.

  51:20

  So if they lash out at you, hit you, or, you know, threaten to hurt themselves, that's when you call for help.

  Call 988, which is the mental health crisis line or 911, right?

  Or remove yourself or remove the dangerous thing, like really protect the, you know, make sure that there's no unsafe behavior.

  51:41

  Then almost you could picture like the transference focus therapy therapist, you're just really neutral.

  You're really in the middle.

  I'm here, I love you.

  Yes, this is hard and we're OK.

  Yes, I love you.

  51:56

  And there are some things I do that make you feel unloved, right?

  I am here for you.

  I'm safe and sometimes I'm going to need my space, right?

  So staying in that consistency, in that grounded place, and then you're modeling that for them, right?

  52:16

  They're in full survival mode, like, Oh no, I was in a car crash once.

  I'm not getting into any car.

  They're like in that phase.

  And so they're totally protecting themselves, right?

  I can't tolerate a drop of bad, but you can model.

  All right, Yep, there's some good and some bad here and we are safe.

  52:34

  If you want to think about it, the developmental psychologist, the ones that the child psychologist who talked about this, Melanie Klein and Ronald Fairburn, among others, and Winnicott, they saw the shift from like the splitting, the kids splitting to like more mature thinking as the kid is completely dependent on their caregiver, right?

  52:58

  They're caregivers the whole world.

  They can't tolerate anything being wrong with the caregiver, right?

  So the shift is growing from full dependence to healthy interdependence, right?

  Instead of you being the God, whatever, the favorite person, the one that is the solution to everything, it's, oh, there's some good and some bad, There's some uncertainty and secure.

  53:29

  You have some independence and you have some choices.

  And so do I, right?

  It's more complex, which is harder to wrap your head around, especially when you're upset.

  But the more that we can hold on to that complexity, the Gray area, the healthier we've become.

  So I hope this helps.

  53:47

  I, I understand how tough it is to see your loved 1 split.

  I mean, it's so painful when you're like, when you see them doing well and they're making friends and you're getting along with them and everything's good and then it comes crashing down.

  It's almost like all of that was destroyed.

  54:03

  It's not.

  They're just in a phase where they can't see all that right now.

  And if you can work on regulating that emotion, helping them calm their nervous system, which is not your responsibility is theirs, but you can create the environment that is helps that person regulate, stay consistent, stay grounded to be the anchor in the storm, then you can get to that healthy interdependence a lot faster.

  54:30

  So I love you guys.

  If you have any questions or comments, please write them in the comments in Spotify or YouTube, wherever you're watching this.

  And if you have requests for topics that I can cover here that you want to know about, please let me know.

  54:48

  I love those.

  I really want to answer the questions that you guys have.

  I don't want to just like spread out about anything.

  So I want to hear what you want to hear.

  So leave that in the comments and if you haven't already, please subscribe and I'll see you next week.

  55:06

  Bye guys.

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  55:32

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  55:58

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  56:17

  Thank you.