Ep. 203 - When You Don’t Feel Seen: Why Validation Can Change Everything
In this deeply personal episode, Dr. Kibby explores what happens when we feel triggered, misunderstood, or unseen by the people closest to us. Drawing from her own experience with sensory overwhelm, she breaks down how empathy can fall apart in relationships and why validation can be such a powerful way to reconnect. She also explores the balance between asking others to understand and accommodate our triggers while learning how to communicate our needs and manage difficult emotions ourselves.
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I feel a specific kind of outrage for this experience of feeling like I was a crazy person, that I was weird.
I was made fun of.
I've been made like really made fun of for not being able to understand what's going on.
They're like, oh, you're such a space cadet or you're not even listening.
0:18
I literally can't.
Like I just, oh, you know, And when I try and fail, it's even more upsetting.
So when you go from thinking that you're a monster and feeling all that shame to then realizing that it is a thing, that it's a disorder, that it's a thing that's not just my fault.
0:39
It's something that a lot of people struggle with, right?
Even just hearing about my son, there's like an auditory processing issue.
I'm like, Oh my God, I thought I was just bad at hearing, but that is what I have.
It just it felt so valid, deeply validating in a way that I can't describe.
0:58
Hi guys, welcome to a little help for.
Our Friends a podcast for people with loved ones struggling with mental health.
Hi little helpers, this is going to be a slightly different episode.
Today I'm going to be talking about feeling triggered by not feeling seen by someone, by not being validated.
1:23
It's a different kind of episode today because I literally just came off of, well, I'm so kind of in it, I guess kind of like an episode where I felt really overwhelmed.
I was really triggered and I feel like it was just important to capture my thoughts and share it with you.
1:45
And when I'm in the midst of it, I've been, you know, you, although I'm such a fan of validation and empathy and understanding what people are going through as a way to connect and also reduce conflict and escalation, especially with people who in your life who have intense emotions.
2:09
And I always say this, if you love someone or close to someone who is struggling with their intense emotions and you want to learn the skills to support them, calm them down, but also help yourself.
That's what my program is all for kulamind.com, KUL AM ind.com.
2:29
I'm going to talk, you know, in in that program, I actually teach a lot of the skills that I'm going to tell you about today.
So yeah.
So just check it out and let me know if you're interested.
So just wanted to tell you about that.
But I've been talking to a lot of people in Kulamind, my client, my wonderful clients who often have a loved one, mostly a child, I mean an adult child who's struggling with emotions in some way.
2:59
And like they have borderline personality sort or some other kind of like anger issues or trauma.
And they just kind of explode.
And the loved one will say the mom, because that's what a lot of a lot of loved ones are, is like these moms who go like, I don't know what to do.
3:19
I don't know how to help them.
Like they're screaming at me that I don't listen or that I don't get it.
And I'm trying.
I tell them I love them.
I apologize, but it just like it doesn't seem to work.
And so I've been hearing this breakdown in, I feel like emotional connection and really understanding like these, these, these people with intense people who are triggered, these people with intense emotions are like, they sound like screaming out to be heard, right?
3:50
And so angry that they're not heard.
And their loved ones are like trying, but it's not working.
There's a disconnect.
They're not seeing them, they're not hearing them, even though they're like doing their best.
And then there's an explosion.
4:05
So it kind of feels like an impasse.
And I've been giving a lot of skills to the loved ones who, you know, validate and listen and all these different ways to deal with those.
4:22
Kind of with this kind of like, I guess communication breakdowns.
I'll say empathy breakdowns, really.
But today was the first time in a while that I felt triggered by this myself, like triggered by an empathy empathy breakdown.
4:38
I want to say like, maybe that's what I'll call this, like triggered by empathy breakdowns.
It's been a while since I felt this way.
And so I was like, I should actually talk about it and talk about what it's like from the other side, from that emotionally, the the person with mental illness aside, the one who explodes, the one who feels overwhelmed easily, the one who bursts out and is like, I want people to hear me.
5:08
I want my mom to hear me.
I want people around me to just support me and listen to me.
But they don't feel like they're getting, they're getting that.
So I haven't really talked about this that much and on this podcast, and I'm really nervous actually to talk about it because it's, I don't know, I think I'm still learning about it.
5:26
And so it feels raw.
So I have, I think an auditory processing problem.
It could be misophonia, not sure.
But in large crowded spaces, especially indoors, when there's a lot of echo, there's something that happens in my brain where I just can't listen to anything.
5:48
And it's, it's weird because it's, it's like, you know, especially if there's a crowded restaurant and people are talking.
And my, my worst nightmare is crowded restaurants in a group, a large group of people that's like my social nightmare, which is unfortunately what Chinese families love.
6:08
And so it's just like, you know, it made it seem like I hate family for my whole life, but I just can't stand that particular setting because with all the different conversations and sounds bouncing off, it literally is like if you've watch like a Muppet Babies and whenever there's an adult talking to them, it sounds like, oh, no, that's Charlie Brown.
6:30
It's like, like, that's what it just sounds like clanking and like as if there's like like 200 people shouting at each other all at once.
And I, I literally can't even hear what people are saying.
I can make out like one or two words.
6:47
Like I could get like one word.
If someone's talking to me, they have to be like really next to me.
And they, you know, they have like, I could catch one or two words.
But then usually I have to rely on a lot of, like, piercing together what I think they're talking about, which is awkward.
7:05
And then eventually, it's so tiring that I just kind of shut down.
And I just kind of stare off into space.
And I never understood why people like to sit in restaurants and talk for long periods of time.
I'm like, OK, we ate.
Let's go.
All right, let's go.
So I've struggled with that all my life.
And when I was a kid, it looked like my mom would always take me to these like group play activities and I hated them because it was like that, but like kids screaming and stuff.
7:30
And I would hold on to the the like handles or refuse to go or, or cry in tantrum.
And my mom would like drag me in.
And, and I, I like even now, I don't exactly know why, right?
Like even now as like an emotion regulation expert PhD, like learn from the best of the best treated people with this, I still don't really get it.
7:54
And as a kid, I really didn't get it.
I got at the time messages that I was crazy that I had an unusual reaction and it was like bad and I I should have behaved and things like that.
As I'm talking about it like, I'm sorry to panic a little bit, OK?
8:21
Yeah, I guess the the the thing, the trigger is like that something's wrong with me, stuck with me.
And ironically, I just ended up in in my post doc treating misophonia.
8:40
So there were other people talking about like when I hear certain sounds, I get these like overwhelming feelings, these anger and fear and I panic and I just want to leave.
And then at the end I feel like ashamed and sad and embarrassed.
I'm at the shame and sad and embarrassed moment right now.
8:56
I feel like I'm like the worst person ever.
I know a lot of it is that the adrenaline crash?
But I, you know, like, it's just hard when I, like, I grew up in New York City and I manage it in all these different ways that people thought I was weird about, but they didn't know why.
9:21
Like, I would always have headphones and I would always walk on the street.
And I love walking and I Love Actually listening to headphones and just having like one source of sound.
So I could really like walk in and enjoy the wall.
I love walking, but if I had my headphones out, New York City would be too much.
9:43
I movie theaters are crowded.
Movies are like a plays or stuff like that.
It's hard for me to like listen.
I usually have to watch TV with like the subtitles and stuff.
This is so embarrassing.
And people are like, oh, you, you never remember movies that we saw, you know, like we saw that movie.
10:01
Don't remember what happened.
And I'm like, I remember the visuals, but I couldn't tell you the plot.
And I this is one of my coping mechanics.
I secretly look at the plot online before or after the movie.
So embarrassing.
So I know what's happening.
10:19
That's why I was so voracious reader, because I can like put on like headphones, listen to one thing and just like absorb.
And I didn't really think about what this was.
I just, I got diagnosed with ADHD and so I just thought like, I can't really focus on things.
10:36
I didn't really realize it was the auditory piece.
But then earlier this year, my, my son's teachers at preschool mentioned that he gets really dysregulated and little outcome and angry when the room is kind of like busy and chaotic.
10:56
And I, we later found out that the, that the teachers had a hard time like managing the group.
So it was very like screaming.
Like there was a lot of screaming.
A lot of kids like kind of kind of lack of organization.
And they were, I don't know, I guess I was so upset by the way they talked about it that he needed like occupational therapy that, you know, he needs to be managed.
11:21
And I remember thinking like I have that like is like, don't tell, don't I was like, please don't tell him that something's wrong with him otherwise he's going to feel the way I feel.
And, and, and I'm just like, is this so wrong to feel overwhelmed by, you know, sounds happening in like, you know, really loud room.
11:50
But I, I was like, he would be disruptive and he would kind of like when he would get into that phase and kind of like push or kick other kids.
So I get that the way he was reacting it to it was like something that needed to be helped.
12:06
But then learning more about it and learning that there's some kids who have auditory processing issues where, you know, maybe they're sensory seeking.
They need like physical touch with their body because they're craving that sensory input for their body.
12:23
But maybe sounds are too much.
And I was like, oh, that makes total sense.
I spent all my life like being calmed down by massages and yoga and getting into my body and then like crowded loud places is like, I, I, I can't, I can't do it like, I can't do it like other people can.
12:42
And so it started to become more aware that maybe I have that and I'm coming to peace with it.
I just have my strategies and, you know, things that I've taught my clients with misophonia and their families, like different ways to let's say when I go to a restaurant now, I can't go to many.
13:03
Like I actually, I don't go to more than one restaurant in like a week or and if I do, it's really like really exhausting, really taxing.
Now it's a lot worse because I have body pains from cancer treatment.
13:18
So it's like, anyway, so I go and I do deep breaths and I tried to, I tried to position myself in places where I could just sit next to the one person I talked to right And just try to block out.
And eventually I, I do weird things like I go to the bathroom like several times just to sometimes just sit there and enjoy the silence and have a moment to like, like take some deep breaths, right?
13:46
And that's fine, right?
This is like, I, I feel like embarrassed and you know, but I've, I've, I've made a, managed to like manage it right.
I've managed to like live a somewhat normal life, have lots of friends, a big social life, enjoy amazing food, amazing restaurants and not let it interfere with my life.
14:11
The place where I go nuts and I feel like I break down like this and have a really hard time is when, especially with my mom or maybe with anyone else, I feel like judged or unheard or invalidated for that, for that feeling for what I'm going through.
14:30
And it just, I, it happened today, we went to brunch and I have told my mom a bunch of times and how she's listening to this and she's going to yell at me after this.
And I'm waiting for a text for yelling at me too.
14:48
But I've told her a bunch of times that I don't like restaurants, that I prefer not to go out, that it's like stressful and going to be busy.
And she's kind of seen me like react in these ways to group settings and she keeps she she's just, I think she just likes restaurants.
15:10
She likes going out to restaurants.
I think it's something that she enjoys doing and ways that she likes seeing me.
I always try to be like, oh, you could go with so and so without me, you know, I'm busy.
But she just keeps saying, Oh, I want you to come.
So in service of like having a relationship with her, I go I go to these restaurants and I really have to work through managing it.
15:35
But today it was a little bit too much because we went to brunch and the brunch place was so crowded and I was put in a seat that was like, I mean, I sat down.
So I'm not going to, you know, play the victim card, but I was, I was in a seat that was like closer to the people behind me then the rest of the table and there was all these and I was like in the way of people.
16:00
So people were bumping.
So people were bumping me and and talking behind me and I literally couldn't hear anyone at the table.
Now, a lot of the time I could just kind of zone out right?
Like some it bothers me, but but some of the time, like I get so overwhelmed that I just kind of like dissociate and I sit there with my own thoughts and I kind of like like go through a few states through the whole dinner, but and sometimes I drink.
16:27
It's terrible to say.
Sometimes I drink.
And I think what the issue is today is that I didn't take like my pain meds for my body.
And it's Saturday, so I didn't take my ADHD meds.
So I was really, I could not focus and I was in a lot of pain.
16:44
So sitting there, I literally like took deep breaths.
I I communicated to everyone that I was like having a hard time hearing and I could see two different approaches that makes a huge difference in how I felt in that moment. 1 was my husband who has always been so good at validating.
17:08
Even if he doesn't get it, even if he doesn't relate, he still does a really good job making me feel seen.
Like he just he just has a gift.
And I'm trying to, I'm going to break it down as a skill.
17:24
He he checks in.
He's like, how you doing?
Right.
And nothing big, nothing like, you know, how you doing.
He's like, how you doing.
I can tell him a little bit about how I'm feeling.
And instead of pushing back, he goes, OK, like, all right, you know.
17:41
Yeah.
And he, he validates with his own.
Yeah.
It's hard for me too.
It's it's really loud in here.
He's like, I know it's not to the level that you feel right now, but it's, it is pretty chaotic.
So I get it right.
Just like perfect.
Like he doesn't, he's not fully this in the same place, but he normalized what I was feeling and then he knew this.
18:03
He knew this.
He knew the coping skills that helped me.
So he was like, you know, why don't you take a walk?
Why don't you take a walk outside?
So I took a walk outside and fortunately I came back and found my son like wedged behind one of the seats of the like, he's like managed to.
18:21
And so he was screaming.
And so we had to drag him out of the restaurant screaming.
So it was just, I'm just like sweating thinking about it.
So it was just a lot.
And I and I was think sitting there like feeling all these familiar feelings, like having a hard time listening.
18:40
People are still talking to me.
So I still had the pressure of like, and I kept saying, I'm sorry, I can't hear you.
I'm sorry.
But people still kept like trying to engage me in conversation.
And I was and then eventually like everything kind of like became this like wall of sound.
18:59
And I was like, I was shaking when I usually end up shaking.
And then I was like, I felt like I was going to throw up.
So, but but there was this anger on top of it of like, why don't I was just all my angry thoughts were like, why do people like restaurants?
19:17
Why do we have to go to this?
Why like my mom knows I don't like restaurants.
Why do we, why is she making me do this all the time?
And so I was having these like defensive, blaming angry thoughts, right?
And a lot of it directed to my mother because she made the reservation.
It was like, see you there.
19:34
And I feeling unseen in that moment was hard, right?
And I didn't, but it was also embarrassing to say, hey, right now the sound is so loud or chaotic that I I literally can't hear anything and it's making me scared like that.
19:55
I didn't say that as clearly, but you know, like I think I was just angry.
Like, one, she knows this is hard for me.
And two, like in this moment.
I, I don't feel seen except by my husband who was like on it and was like, all right, So that was like the, the pressure valve.
20:16
And then eventually I came home and I was like, like, like this feeling of when you were so anxious and you get out of situation, I was like, like crying in the cab and I'm still crying now.
And I did all these different things to calm myself down, like deep breaths.
20:31
I did some yoga.
I like lay with a blanket, like all of my coping skills and I had urges to yell at my mom.
I was really angry because I was like, she's the one who wanted me there.
But it was a combination of like she made those plans and knows that I don't like it, but like makes these plans anyway.
20:57
So it just occurred to me that I'm feeling and thinking a lot of these, like a lot of my clients, loved ones, my clients kids who are like so angry at their parents for making them do something that made them uncomfortable.
21:15
And they go you, you know, they kind of scream at them like you're abusive and how could you do this to me?
And you have to take accountability and being on the parent side.
I was like, whoa, this is harsh.
Like what are these kids screaming about?
21:30
And now being on the kids side, I still think that the way I'd like it wouldn't have been effective for me to give into my urges and text my mom.
Be like, you know, you're the word, like blaming.
But I, and I did my best to say to her like, listen, I, I'm sorry, I know that you make reservations again in a week, but I, I just really can't.
21:56
It's actually really hard for me to go to these restaurants.
I have to, like, take medication and I can't really hear.
And it takes me a while to, like, calm down from them.
And she was like, oh, OK, all right, you know, that's fine.
And then I thought, wait, this might be a good opportunity to explore the breakdown, the empathy breakdown.
22:18
That's that drives so many loved ones crazy.
And so I asked her.
I'll read you the actual text.
Oh, she said yes, but I didn't know that the noise makes you shut down like that.
22:38
Mind you, I do a lot of things I don't really like either.
So in my head I was like, maybe I've done a bad job explaining how I feel.
Like maybe that's where these loved ones, I will say these kids, because a majority of them is, are adult children, but I also talk about partners.
22:57
But but maybe this is what these people struggle with is that they feel so upset and triggered by something.
They're upset that their loved 1 doesn't validate and understand them.
But then maybe they didn't explain it to them in the first place that clearly maybe they're just like, ah, this sucks.
23:13
And there's no, no more clear clarity around that what it's actually like, right?
So I was like, OK, let me actually ask.
Let me see where the breakdown is.
Oh, I've told you before.
You don't remember or didn't realize how bad it was.
23:30
I'm asking because my clients struggle with this a lot.
Telling someone they're bothered by something but that it's unclear if they understood, right?
Like a lot of these kids are saying, like my parents know that chewing, the sound of chewing makes me go nuts, right?
23:46
And they just, they tell me to be quiet.
They tell me I should get over it.
And, and they just don't get it.
And it's abusive, right?
It's like this feeling of like I'm being intruded on and the parents don't care or they don't see.
So I wanted to understand what was happening on that side.
24:06
Is it like a lack of communication or she knows and you know, And so I got the answer.
The answer is, of course, I've heard it.
But you do realize how unusual it is for someone to hate restaurants like you do.
Maybe I just didn't want to believe it.
24:25
So I appreciated, I really do appreciate her honesty because it did highlight, oh, that is what I was afraid of.
That's what I was afraid of all along.
And I appreciate she said that so genuinely because it's like maybe that that's at least where the breakdown is with us.
24:45
And that's the thing that could really drive a wedge between loved ones is it's one thing if the, let's say the parent doesn't get it, like doesn't get why a kid freaks out and runs away when there's a lot, when there are loud sounds in a loud crowded room.
25:04
And if they just truly don't understand and they're like, I don't get like, I like crowds.
I don't know why this kid doesn't like it, right?
There's that ignorance.
But then that could be 1 empathy breakdown.
But this empathy breakdown is a lot more painful.
25:22
It's the kid has said to the parent, I don't like this.
This is uncomfortable.
And for whatever reason, that parent goes, well, that's weird, that's unusual.
You do realize that you're unusual.
And maybe I just don't want it.
25:41
I just didn't want to hear it.
So 1 is that they really do judge their kid for feeling the way they do.
This is unusual.
You should know that you're unusual.
And two is a denial.
It's an invalidation of it.
25:57
Like I didn't want you to feel that way.
I didn't want to really believe it.
I think it's crazy and I think it's weird that certain sounds make you react this way, right?
Like that's that second part is what I was, I heard from that text.
26:14
She was actually being really kind here and listening.
So, but I feel like that is something that we should talk about way more.
If you feel like you have someone you love who's exploding in anger, being triggered by things, reacting in ways that you don't understand, and you're trying to talk to them about it and trying to manage it.
26:41
I always use validation as the main skill, right?
To to really ask and understand what that person's feeling and then communicate how you understand that they're feeling the way they do.
Like, like even the way my husband did it, he just goes, yeah, you know, I, I, I don't necessarily feel react in the same way, but I get it.
27:05
There's a lot of sound and you have a hard time hearing.
I get why you'd be so, like, worked up right now, right?
Just having someone want to sit next to you and understand why you're feeling that.
And a lot of parents might not want to do that.
27:25
Maybe they're not unaware that they don't want to do that.
But one, they might actually think it's strange, like they actually might judge their kids or their loved ones for feeling the way they do.
And two, maybe there's something about it that they just don't want to take in, whether it's they don't know how to tolerate or don't know how to sit with their loved one having a big emotion, right?
27:52
Sometimes when there's like when the kid is sad, a parent might be like, I, I, I don't, I can't even stomach seeing my kids sad.
I've been taught that sadness is not good.
So calm down, calm down, calm down.
I don't want to hear it, right.
So there might just be like an intolerance and fear of that emotion or it could also get in the way of something that that parent wanted, right?
28:15
Like it is possible.
I'm not saying this is the truth, but I'm wondering if my mom does like to go out to restaurants a lot.
And now that she knows that how much it actually affects me, it would mean that she can't see me in restaurants as much Already.
28:41
I know that I'm not seeing her in restaurants as much as she'd like.
She was always like, why?
You know, why don't you let, why don't you go out with me?
Why don't you see me?
I always prefer that she comes, you know, to our house or go to some place that's like quiet.
But maybe she's just didn't want to didn't want to accept it, didn't want to accept that I can't deal with something that she likes to do.
29:06
So, you know, I was thinking about that really question if there's a if there's a breakdown in a loved one of yours who's emotionally dysregulated for having trouble feeling really triggered by something.
And they're like yelling at you, but like you never listen.
29:22
You think like, take a moment to reflect on why.
Why is it that it's hard to say, hey, I get that this is really upsetting for you.
Is it because it's hard to even think that they actually feel that way?
29:41
Does it get in the way of the things that you want from them or that you would prefer the relationship to look like?
Are you taught that emotions are bad and you know when they're expressing it, You're like, I learned that emotions are bad or they you know, they maybe have not communicated in a way that is effective, right?
30:04
Like I, I think it's on it's, it is the job of the person who's triggered to learn how to communicate it respectfully and clearly, right?
When someone is triggered and they're just like screaming at the other person, like it's all your fault.
30:23
You're the one.
I was like, of course the loved 1 is going to be overwhelmed and not going to hear that, right?
They're going to pay more attention to protecting themselves from being yelled at or attacked than saying, Oh, I understand that the thing that I did hurt you or whatever, right?
30:40
So I think it really, it really is the job of the person who's triggered to maybe on the moment, but after say, hey, this is what triggered me.
This is how it felt and this is how you can help.
Because then the other question now is how much do you accommodate that?
30:58
Like how much do you change things to make sure you don't trigger someone, right?
That's another question that I get.
It's like the cool of mine clients, they say that their kids, their adult kids are like I, I'm triggered by let's say sound this these kind of sounds and the way you can really validate me and hear me is actually not make those sounds.
31:28
So that is the question of if someone triggers someone else.
If you trigger someone you love, whose job is it to change?
Is it the job of the triggered person to learn to tolerate those feelings and cope with it?
31:44
Or does it is it on the side of the the loved one to find ways to remove the things that triggered them right?
To like actually protect them from the triggers?
I don't think there's any real clear answer to that, but I, it's interesting to me to feel it right now.
32:06
I feel a specific kind of outrage for this experience of feeling like I was a crazy person, that I was weird.
I was made fun of.
That was, you know, like me listening to like headphones, me not being able to take in things.
32:24
Like I've been made like really made fun of for not being able to like hear and understand what's going on.
They're like, oh, you're such a space cadet or you're not even listening.
And I'm like, I, I literally can't like, I just, oh, you know, and when I try and fail, it's even more upsetting.
32:42
So when you go from thinking that you're a monster and like some some weirdo and feeling all that shame to then realizing that it is a thing that it's a disorder, that it's a thing that's not just my fault.
33:01
It's something that a lot of people struggle with, right.
Even just hearing about my son that there's like an auditory processing issue.
I'm like, Oh my God, I thought that I thought I was just weird.
I thought I was just bad at hearing, I guess bad at listening.
But that is what I have and to like I haven't even gotten into like what does it mean to actually have treatment for that like in my auditory processing, But it just it felt so valid, deeply validating in a way that I can't describe.
33:33
But then I also had this feeling ever since then of outrage, like my in protection of this, this little version of me that was felt so weird for not being able to like sit in a crowded room and enjoy all like people yelling activities and especially in like school gymnasiums that that honestly, like I it's like pain.
33:58
It was like physically painful to be in those scenarios.
But being ashamed of myself for so long and then realizing it's a thing and it's not just who I am.
I have this like freedom of feeling validated, but then I'm like outraged for all the people that made me feel that right.
34:16
So getting texts like, well, you know, it's unusual that you react this way to restaurants.
I have this special kind of like F you, you know, like F you that's, you know, like I've.
34:33
The thing is that yes, you may have those thoughts about your loved one who's triggered in this weird way.
You might be like, this is weird.
Why are you so upset after like a brunch at a restaurant, right?
You shouldn't feel this way.
34:50
I don't want to.
I didn't even want to believe it, but when you have those thoughts of invalidation or judgment, I guarantee, especially if they're your kid or someone that you love, they have those thoughts about themselves too.
35:07
And hearing it from someone you love, especially a parent, is equally devastating, Right?
It's like you wonder if you were weird all your life and a social pariah and then someone you love or like your especially your mom would be like, yeah, you're weird.
35:27
There's like levels of outrage.
This is like, why did you make me feel?
Why?
Why did I why did I spend so much of my life thinking that I was something to be ashamed of?
So I think a real empathy breakdown is when there's real, real hidden, maybe unspoken judgement thoughts.
35:55
Because everybody of most people I've talked to who have had weird triggers, let's say like they have misophonia, they, they freak out whenever they hear someone chewing or coughing or clearing their throat or you know, who have borderline personality sort or who get triggered by feeling rejected or something.
36:17
And they have these big reactions.
Most of the people that I've seen feel ashamed about them, like they feel guilty.
They feel like they can't help it, but they and they know it causes problems, but then people judge them for it anyway.
And if you if they actually heard, yeah, I think your emotions are weird and they don't really make any sense.
36:38
And you're the only one who feels this way.
It's doubly like, yeah, OK, well, I feel ashamed about it.
So that shame and needing to defend yourself against that shame is what makes like, let's say a small, you know, bubble of emotion turn into like a full on fight or even get in the in the middle of family relationships, right.
37:04
So I'm sorry, I went on a tangent about that.
And it's like, then what do you do?
How do you accommodate?
Because I think now that there is so much more mental health awareness, I see this especially in the younger generations and I see it a lot online.
37:22
There is like a backlash like this outrage of like, I have this disorder and if anyone who judges me for it or you have to accommodate me, you have to stop triggering me, right?
And I'm, I've been on the fence because I, I always, I, I always think that it's a tricky place to use your diagnosis as a reason to tell, to control the world around them, right?
37:54
To use your feeling that you're a victim or realizing that you've been a victim of trauma or abuse or something to as like a trump card as like, you can't say this to me.
I'm a, I'm a victim of blah, blah.
Or you have to stop triggering me or how dare you invite me to a restaurant, right?
38:12
Like, and I don't believe I I do get it.
I get it right now I feel the outrage of like, why the do people invite me to restaurants?
Why do people like restaurants?
I do not get it.
I don't get it.
You can order the same delicious food in the comfort of your home without having like what it sounds like 80 people talking into your ear.
38:34
Like I don't outdoor restaurants are totally fine actually.
Like as soon as you hear like the air when you don't have the the bounce back anyway.
But I still have a thought like everyone should accommodate me.
38:52
Now I know I have an auditory processing thing and I'm not crazy.
Stop making me go to these stupid restaurants that are so crowded and trigger me at the same time.
That's my angry thought.
That's my defensive like defense against my shame.
39:11
How could you have?
How could I have?
How could I think that I was a a weird bad person?
No, you guys accommodate me.
You guys listen to me.
Someone listen to me and treat me with respect.
39:27
Take my feelings seriously.
I don't know where that leaves that where the the balance is, because I also believe that even when I feel this way, this outrage, I shouldn't.
And I can't expect the world to cave around me if I do.
39:44
I'd be stuck forever, right?
If I if I thought to myself like, I'll never go to a restaurant or I will always be mad at the people who make me go to crowded places.
Like I would cut out a lot of wonderful things in my life.
And I also don't think it's my responsibility or I don't think it's the people, even my mom's responsibility to like never expose me to situations where I feel triggered.
40:07
OK, so there has to be give and take here.
What I imagine would be like even just think about what is.
A middle path is for me to do better and I tried just now with the text messages, but to do better communicating what this was like for me, like what I'm feeling, not just like, whoa, I hate, you know, I can't, I don't can't hear you, whatever.
40:33
But like I'm like a literally about to throw up because it's like it, it feels like physically maybe it's just hard to explain just physically distressing, right?
So it's on me to express and be clear about this is what it's like.
40:53
And then even if Someone Like You don't never invite me to a restaurant, but it is kind of nice when if that is like take into a consideration or accommodated, like if my mom or someone else goes like, hey, we're going to a restaurant, It's kind of crowded.
41:11
Can should we find like a table that's like outside or in a corner that's not so not so like echoey.
I would still be like, no, no, no, it's fine.
But it's fine.
Don't worry about it.
I'll deal with it.
But I still would appreciate it would take the pressure off suffering alone and suffering alone and feeling weird and ashamed.
41:35
Or if just like what my husband did so beautifully was just like, say, OK, I see you're feeling, I get it.
Do what you need to do.
He just said, you know, at some point he was just like, you know what, this is a good time for you to go home.
We're like, you know, you take the food back and we could, you know, put it in the fridge.
41:55
So him just giving me permission or, or directing me to cope, to help me cope in a moment was, I mean, it felt like, felt like I was held in that moment.
It felt like I wasn't alone.
I felt like someone saw what I was going through and didn't think I was crazy, which is really nice.
42:18
And yeah, like it and whatever accommodation makes sense.
Like I feel terrible that I can't go to, I can't go to restaurants without it being difficult.
But I also know my mom likes it.
So I hope that we could figure out ways to hang out and spend time together that's not like that.
42:42
But that's this these kind of similar empathy breakdowns has been hard with our in our relationship because whenever I do say like, I don't like this thing, she takes it personally and says like, well, you don't like me and you don't like anything that I like.
42:59
So it's even as she's listening to this, I bet I'm going to get a bunch of angry texts, but then I'm caught.
Then then usually this is the issue that I have with my mom and some other people in my life who like like things a certain way.
43:19
Like I how much do I take medication, do breathing things like deal with those restaurants because she likes it?
And how much do I ask and expect and hope that she can accommodate like other ways of hanging out that are less like triggering for me.
43:39
It is tough in relationships where you feel like that other person wouldn't accommodate you even if they didn't even they wouldn't even have to.
But there is that feeling that's really hard to get through, which is like at the bottom line is like, I don't think that person thinks it's valid that I feel this way.
44:04
I think they judge me.
They don't want it and they don't want it.
They don't want my feelings get in the way of the way they want to spend time with me or the things that they like to do.
So I think that's the hardest.
That's where I struggle with and my response is usually I with withdraw on myself.
44:26
I just like stop reaching out.
I get resentful and I don't think that's good either.
So I do now more than ever spend a lot of time on friendships where I do feel like reciprocal.
44:47
I feel like there's validation on both sides and I feel like I'm a whole person, but I but This is why I get particularly triggered when I feel like that other person doesn't see me or doesn't want to see me.
45:05
So thank you so much for kind of going going on my ride of like, I literally right before this, right, like regulated myself have that text message conversation and try to put thoughts together to explain.
But This is why I really talk about validation and how that is the connector that is the bridge when there's an empathy breakdown, when someone feels like I am so upset and I'm out of control my emotions and I feel bad, but I'm lashing out and I just want you to hear me.
45:39
I just want you to understand what I'm feeling.
And then the other person is like, OK, I'm sorry, I don't know what to do.
And it just feels like one person is shouting in the void and the other person is like defending themselves and there's a breakdown.
There's not a connection there.
I think it's on the person who's, again, the burden on the person who's triggered to explain it in a way that's clear the way that other person can understand and isn't attacking, right.
46:10
So if I come out and be like, how dare you bring me to the restaurant, that's going to put the other person in defense and they're not going to hear you at all.
So I think it's on our side to explain clearly and say, hey, mom, this thing.
46:26
Let me tell you why it's so hard for me.
Here's what I'm asking you.
And then it's on the other side to really listen and say, I might not get what they're feeling, but let me get what this is like for them, right?
And even just showing a commitment to understanding their world and why they're triggered and what is triggered can do wonders.
46:49
Because you might not be able to wipe away the trigger, but feeling seen when you are can make all the difference.
Can at least bring connection in moments of intense pain or overwhelm.
47:06
So this is still a call for validation again, I teach all these skills to people have trouble with the explosive ones in Koolamine so check it out.
KUL AM Ind yeah, I I work with you guys in that program really carefully.
47:27
And I've seen amazing, amazing transformations in my clients where people there was breakdowns and screaming and maybe a kid with BPD or addiction or some other kind of serious illness and they they're asking their mom or their loved one for help, but they're doing it in ways that are really harsh and overwhelming to the other person.
47:52
And then no one gets what they want.
So I've seen amazing transformations in the loved ones to learn how to slow down, how to really understand these emotions, how to ask and validate.
And then slowly doesn't happen overnight.
It takes a few practice.
48:07
It was slowly, it softens the other side and there was like an actual channel of communication going on.
And that is just like the most healing thing that could, you know, make it have your experience when you're going through something like this, when you're triggered, you don't know why.
48:28
So thank you for listening.
I love your comments, except for the nasty ones.
So please don't leave those.
But if you have any questions, comments or concerns, write comments in YouTube or Spotify, wherever you're listening to this.
48:47
And again, I want to hear what you want to talk about, what you want me to talk about.
I'll get guests or I'll research and talk to you about it myself.
But I love you guys.
See you next week.
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49:13
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49:41
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50:10
Thank you.