Ep. 149- Love Island USA Analysis Part 1: Untangling Reality TV Relationship Dynamics
Ever wondered what reality TV can teach us about psychology? In this episode, we put our mental health expertise to "work" analyzing the relationship dynamics on the first 17 episodes of Season 7 of "Love Island USA," revealing fascinating patterns that mirror what therapists see in couples therapy every day.
The villa becomes our laboratory as we dissect the pursue-withdraw dynamic playing out between contestants like Ace and Amaya. Watch as we unpack how Ace masterfully maintains emotional distance while keeping women interested. His approach to "boundaries" offers a compelling case study in how this psychological concept can sometimes be misused in relationships.
We then turn our attention to Huda and Jeremiah, whose turbulent relationship showcases textbook anxious attachment behaviors. From the infamous "pancake incident" to America's devastating vote, we explore how Huda's core fear of abandonment drives her reactions, while Jeremiah's tendency to withdraw only intensifies the conflict. Their interactions reveal how quickly attachment patterns emerge under pressure, and why some contestants lock into relationships immediately while others maintain strategic distance.
Whether you're a Love Island fan or just curious about relationship psychology, we explore attachment styles, communication patterns, and emotional intelligence that apply far beyond the villa.
**Join our KulaMind Community that launches Monday July 14th! 50% off the first month for podcast listeners! We share our expert tactics for managing our loved ones' mental and emotional issues. Secure your spot at this founding member discount!
Follow @kulamind on Instagram for podcast updates and science-backed insights on staying sane while loving someone emotionally explosive.
For more info about this podcast, check out: www.alittlehelpforourfriends.com
-
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 0:00
Hey guys, welcome to A Little Help for Our Friends, a podcast for people with loved ones struggling with mental health. Hello, little Helpers, we are going to do something new which is psychoanalyze reality TV. So a little bit out of our wheelhouse, but also kind of in our wheelhouse. We are not so secretly big reality TV fans. Obviously I am coming from that world, but kibbe might be even more hardcore than I am, so we figured it was time to break down a show. We're gonna start with love island. Um, since it has like 80 000 different episodes, we are going to let you know that we are at about episode 18, 19, something like something like that I think so, yeah, okay.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 0:45
So if you have not gotten there, listen no further, because we don't want to spoil anything, but we thought we would do like a mid-season, you know psychoanalysis, and then pick up later. But first, kibbe, let us know your exciting announcement.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02
Yeah, I mean we've been teasing this and mentioning this in past episodes. You know that we've been working really hard on the KulaMind community and it's launching July 14th, so this Monday. So it's really exciting. It's going to be really cool. It's the meat of it is going to be a course like a skills group where we all can learn these different skills of how to support our loved ones with mental illness or addiction. So we're going to cover all sorts of evidence-based strategies that we have been talking about on this podcast that we know work, like setting boundaries and actually making it stick, rediscovering yourself and communicating effectively and really understanding what your loved ones are going through. So it doesn't seem like this chaos of oh my God, my loved one's just exploding and I don't know what to do, but you actually understand what's happening, how emotions work and how to work with them instead of against them. So it's going to be really cool.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 2:01
The skills group is led by me. Jacqueline and I are going to tag team a lot in it. So, um, you'll get both of us and a lot more direct uh interaction and feedback, and there's going to be a lot of curated resources and a lot of peer support. So it's going to be this whole platform. We could all get together and work on these and support these together. So if you're curious, just go to coolamindcom K-U-L-A-M-I-N-Dcom the link is in the show notes and you get 50% off of your first month. So, as little helpers, you get this special discount.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 2:36
So yeah, I feel like that was so serious and educational, and now we have to pivot into snark and trash TV, so just a quick reset.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 2:46
Yeah, I think this is your first, it's your first love Island that you've watched.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 2:54
Yes, we were doing. Love Island USA is the first season I've ever watched and I think so far it is stupid but with a couple.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 3:04
What do you? What do you think is stupid? I mean not, no, do you? What do you think is stupid? I mean not, no, but what do you think is stupid about it?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 3:10
okay, at first, the first few episodes I watched, I was like horrified by how shallow these people were.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 3:18
I I've since come around on many of them, right, because of the bachelor.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 3:22
People are just, you know, there's so much depth no, I think there is more depth on the bachelor than on love island by like an order of magnitude, and that's, that's really saying something. Because do I think there's a ton of depth on the bachelor? Not necessarily, but the, the, the lack of depth on love island is like astounding. But I, I once again like I do, I think, um, the people are not quite as despicable as I thought in the very beginning, um, and I kind of like some of them, like alandria and shelly, uh, and that might be it, what they are amazing yeah, yeah, um, then my biggest complaint was that nothing happened for 12 straight episodes and I could not figure out why the show had staying power.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 4:15
Then the 13th episode was like amazing, and there were like a couple of real bangers in there that like hooked me and I was like, oh, okay, I'm getting this a little bit more. And now I'm struggling with the concept of the show, like I don't really. I don't really get it. I don't get what the goal is.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 4:35
I think the goal is really the same with the bachelor. I think the goal is that we need a modern Coliseum. I think that we used to have a stone structure where we threw in Christians and people we didn't like into an arena and threw some monsters at them and just gleefully shot in Freud and watched.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 5:02
I do think that is actually as good of a metaphor as we're going to get, I mean. But here's the difference between the Bachelor and Love Island and really every other show I've ever seen. On Love Island, the Bachelor, the goal of the show is to be in a relationship. On Love Island, I cannot figure out what the goal of the show is, because people keep getting punished for being in relationships. So are they supposed to stay single? But then if they stay single, they're also sent home. So are they supposed to be in couples where they, like, are getting to know that person but then also explore and like lean into the show? No, because those people are also getting sent home. So I can't figure out how you get to the end. What are you supposed to be aiming for?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 5:50
so I love love island. I, okay, I think you need to really understand it, to really do a deep dive and understand the show at the roots. You have to watch the original Love Island UK and I don't know if it's original or original, but on Hulu there's like old classic season one, season two and it was before the age of influencers and it didn't seem like anyone knew what the show was all about and you just watch people go nuts.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 6:26
Not only do you have the nuts of just competitive dating while you're always in a bikini and always probably dehydrated, but you really got to watch people go insane from cabin fever. You felt it all Like it really was. Like the beginning you could feel that they're so excited and nervous and they're becoming friends. And then they become super close as a group. You know they become like best friends and like ride or die. And then when people get ripped away through voting or, you know, dumping from the Island, you feel that loss.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 7:07
And then at some point you realize that these people have not left this house for I don't know whatever. It is like six weeks and they start to get kind of weird. They they're, you know, they they get obsessive with people who are normally, you know, mentally healthy, I guess, and then at the end you could see that there's like a finish line where it's just kind of like let's, let's pair up, make a good story out of our pair and try to win this. And at the end they used to do all these kind of prisoner dilemma games where it was like they would give the winning couple who's rooted by america. They give the winning couple a, like you know, a potential prize of fifty thousand dollars.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 7:54
But then, you had to. You had to say whether you want to keep it or split it with the other person, and I forgot exactly. I think there's all these different permutations, but you had to say that you would split it with the other person for them actually to get the money and then so it's kind of like are they really? In for love or the money.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 8:13
Yeah, you know um, from bachelor pad, just so you know. Oh, I mean that's from somebody else, but exactly, I think that's older than love Island, though Like by a lot.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 8:27
Maybe I mean I well, I mean the UK verse. Anyway, I think it's just been fascinating because it just feels like an aquarium of a relationships right Like the bachelor is so centered on this one person.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 8:42
Right.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 8:42
And and it's a little bit more like a Bachelor in Paradise kind of feeling where but you would get this like closed ecosystem of a new friend group and every season has had a different pulse because of the group, whether they get along, whether there's a huge bromance, whether there's like really strong, like romantic couple, and, interestingly, most of the ones who are like strong from the beginning are not the ones who win.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 9:08
It's usually a like kind of a redemption story where, um, I'm not going to give it away, but the first season of the uk it's like the messiest girl, the one who's like the disaster, and you just felt for her because she was just like an dysregulated mess. I loved her so much, she was so unfiltered and she had such like colossal dumps and breakups and being, you know, like cheated on and everything. And she finally found someone towards the end and she won right and and there was another couple who was like very much in love the whole time and they. So it just is a little bit more about like watching someone go through the trials and tribulations of dating within this like crazy closed system. And yeah, that's the goal, I think.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 9:56
I guess what I'm saying is, if I went on this show, I would have no idea how to win Like literally none. I'd be like the only person on this show I think the most fascinating character on this show, I think the most fascinating character on this show is ace. I think he is the only one with any kind of strategy get into some kind of winning strategy.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 10:13
I want to hear what you think of the strategy his strategy is. But the weird thing, I don't think they do this as much with with america. They did this in the uk, where it was like there was a live audience watching outside the villa and there was like there was like way more voting, like each week you voted for something, whether it's voting for like the worst couple or the worst girl or whatever, or sometimes there was just like events where they read Twitter, like tweets about them, like that are happening live. So there was a lot more of like awareness that the world was watching them. Yeah.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 10:51
So what I will hand?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 10:53
just love it.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 10:55
Love Island has to be the most sadistic show I've.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 10:58
I've ever seen.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 11:00
It's not the most cynical. The most cynical show I'm going to hand to Temptation Island or the Ultimatum, because those are shows that pretend like they're about love but actually they're about showing that people are so incredibly fame hungry and shallow and attention seeking that they will quite literally undermine their relationship by throwing a grenade into it and then crossing their fingers that maybe they'll make it out to the other end.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 11:26
Like that's cynicism. This show is sadistic with the america votes thing, the whole like I'm sorry that your country doesn't like you. So, even though, huda, you are in a very strong relationship with jeremiah thus far, you might have to go home because America thinks you're gross. Sorry, like that is fucked up, I would.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 11:53
before we watched this, I watched the last season of squid games and I was just you know just the same reaction as probably everyone were like oh, that's so disgusting. These people, these, you know, it's depicting this like this wealthy class. That's so disgusting. These people, these, you know, it's depicting this like this wealthy class of people who just literally make people play games, like make desperate people play games to their death and they're like and then I was watching this I was like this is, this is real life.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 12:20
So yeah, it is sadistic, but I think I think we wanted to talk about this episode or at least this show, because I do think that this season out of more, more seasons I've seen, they've it shows like pretty interesting relationship dynamics. A lot of these people are actually more emotionally intelligent and communicative than I've seen other seasons where it just has been like screaming disasters.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 12:51
There's some people.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 12:52
There were a lot of people who seem very like Alandria and Shelley and, I think, ace too, that you're like, oh, they actually like, they're reasonable people, they're just, you know, they're kind or they're thoughtful or they're doing a thing, but it, I think, because we've been talking so much in these past few episodes about like the pursue, withdraw dynamic and coming into relationships with anxious attachment. Anxious attachment and core beliefs about being broken or unlovable. It's making me watch this show from that lens and I'm like, oh, we really are seeing that like in full technicolor, literally technicolor lights in the show yeah, I mean it's interesting some like therapy speak has come in, but not seemingly in a manipulative way, necessarily like.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 13:44
It seems like some kind of expectations. Maybe you know um developed from like therapy or the zeitgeist being like much more about healthy relationships and communication shit has come in, so love bombing, a lot of talk about love bombing right. So that has come in to destroy the show by making everybody kind of effective at getting along. Who should we start with? Jeremiah and Huda, or someone else?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 14:15
Let's start with Ace. Ace and Amaya. Just because Huda and Jeremiah, we need to get in there. Dedicate, yeah, but Ace is interesting. My husband also finds Ace interesting.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 14:32
I found him well, I think Alex actually is similar to Ace in the way he moves about relationships, because I had this reaction of like yes, look at all the terrible things he's doing. And he was like, oh, like you know, that makes sense. It makes sense why he said that he's very straightforward. Why are they upset? And I'm like so what do you think what? What do you think about Ace and his, his strategy?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 14:58
I think that Ace is the smartest person person on the show. It's interesting because he was so sought after right away and he doesn't seem like he has the markers of somebody that people would go for, like he looks very young to me and like short, for instance, and so for the first several episodes I was like what is going on? Like why are all of these women dying over Ace? And then I watched more and I was like I get it. I think Ace has something approaching true confidence, meaning he doesn't seem to be putting it on, he's never trying too hard. He gives you this sense through his like calm and through his communication that he's got it handled and that and that makes women relax, like if men can do that, they can get any woman they want. So I think that's his appeal. I think what I can't tell if he's actually secretly insecure or if he is just extremely strategic and trying to win the show is he is undermined. He is okay because he has this quality. It's not just the women who are falling for it, it's also the men. So he is like the ringleader of these guys and they seem to be doing whatever he says.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 16:17
He got jeremiah voted off and jeremiah had more. Yeah, he did. America didn't rank Jeremiah in the top and then, because of Ace's little like buzzing around in people's ears and talking to them about how Jeremiah wasn't truly like giving the show a chance, he wasn't truly exploring, he got kicked off. This Jeremiah is the only person you could argue that he's taking this show more seriously than anybody else. He had a legit connection with Huda for a very long time. Then he broke it off when he saw that she was acting crazy and then he started zeroing in on another girl and Ace made that out to be a problem. That Jeremiah is actually able to connect with people and form relationships.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 17:08
He's like he's not exploring enough um, although it aced a drop, I mean, I think, in when they talked about it there there are some hints that that seem really fishy for jeremiah, as if his strategy was to go after the most desperate, the most like, willing to lock down and like, just like lock down with them.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 17:32
What evidence was he? He dumped her. He dumped her very quickly. And then this other chick wasn't desperate whatsoever. She came in and everybody wanted her and he it was 24 hours that he had with that girl, like how can you accuse him of being strategic? And like what if he just was attracted to her?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 18:06
on that set. I mean, I know the dynamics of the Bachelor on the set from you and from some of your friends, but, like, are the producers around? Like all you know is that this is cut so quickly, right? You have like hours and hours of them hanging out on the beach and then the episodes have to be cut within like what, a week or two. Are there producers there? Are they feeding them questions? Are they being like what's going on?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 18:32
So I wonder if Ace had some weird thing with Jeremiah where he could sense that Jeremiah was, you know, angling for something. There was this moment where, in the beginning, when he was dating Huda, jeremiah said something like, yeah, and if we win this, we're probably going to win this the full thing. Like he talked about winning early and I so we don't know if ace is like you know had some kind of you know, saw that or was just just didn't like him or saw that he was a legitimate threat. But I think that's interesting, that you're. You're right that ace really like went after that that couple and I just successfully disbanded it.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 19:08
Very successful, yeah, I like I'm interested to keep watching him through the season because he seems like he's got his little fingers and everybody's little pies and has comments for all of them, which to me seems insecure, like I think the truest confidence on the show is pepe, who is my favorite favorite. But Pepe is like in his own lane. He, you know, I don't think you've seen this scene yet, but a bunch of new chicks come in and a bunch of new dudes come in and they swap. Oh, I haven't seen that yet.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 19:34
Well, anyway, whatever, all the new chicks have to kiss the man while they're blindfolded and he they have to rate them and he gives everyone a 10, which is just nice. It's maybe not interesting but like, come on, you've got a bunch of women coming on and he was more interested in making sure that they didn't feel insecure and that they felt, you know, like good about this vulnerable thing that they had to do versus other men were like, I'll give it like a six and a five, not enough tongue, I don't know. I didn't really feel that passion to me. It just just like you guys are such fucking losers. But anyway, ace is very interesting to me because he seems to be able to get anything he wants at his own pace and there is a history.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 20:16
Everything seem reasonable the way he says it yeah, yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 20:20
So for one thing, there is a history on the show of a character like that. So there's often in some seasons I'm thinking especially the first one there is a guy somehow. He's usually short, like Kem was another one on a different season, but there's usually a guy who has the personality who drives the bros. He's kind of like the I don't want to say the alpha, but the alpha in the sense of in this world, the out, what makes you alpha is not there's one, there's a. There's usually a guy who's everyone likes right, the one you come, come in, everyone thinks is hot. But then there's a guy who's the ringleader, and usually they're the most socially intelligent.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 20:59
So that's what makes you alpha in this world, is to basically work the room, so to speak, and ace, you're right, this confidence, this calm confidence. He's not jittery, he's not shaky, he says what he, he feels, but it's. It was interesting. I remember noticing him with a maya at first, like for the weird reason he picked a maya. And then what immediately was like I'm a slow burn, don't't, don't, don't show me any affection Don't touch me.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 21:28
And that was a really interesting example. That was like a microcosm of the pursue withdraw dynamic. That was like amplified with Hoda and Jeremiah. But Ace would be like he's, of course, the withdrawer right, like he sits back literally. You see the videos of him and any girl he's talking to and he's leaning back, but yet his body language is back, but his eyes are are focused on the girl.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 21:57
And he's like you could tell he's super engaged and slow and like nods and ask questions but yet keeps himself away.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 22:06
So that's, that was such an interesting thing, that that that balance, and he picked, he. He does this kind of like small cat and mouse where he picks Amaya and then, immediately after he picks her, he goes. Hey, I want to let you know I'm a slow burn and, to her credit, I know that we have feelings about amaya um, that she, to her credit, she did a really good job of being emotionally vulnerable, which is kind of impressing me about this whole cast, like she was, just like I kind of wish you set this tomorrow. You kind of burst my bubble. I was just on cloud nine because you picked me and now. Now I feel like crap, yeah, yeah and and he it's interesting, he did this a couple times, but he, he sounds validating and reasonable, but he still stays withdrawn and closed and it was so, it's so. I don't want to use the word gaslighting, but I think these are the moments that people feel are you know when, when, when people do this as gaslighting, because it's like leaning in while staying out.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 23:08
So, she goes. I'm just like, I'm really hurt right now. She starts crying and he goes. Thank you so much for telling me that. I appreciate you sharing me your feelings. I didn't want to hurt your feelings, that's it. And I was like, oh, I was like, I was like, oh, wow, he's so, he's so, you know, open and kind. I mean I'm like, but he just left her hanging. He did not say no, I really do like you, I'm really excited. Like he didn't add in any reassurance, he just validated, thanked her for being vulnerable and said I didn't want you to be upset, vulnerable, and said I didn't want you to be upset. But here you are, upset.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 23:50
I was like damn the boldness.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 23:51
And then he kept doing that with her. He said I don't like it when you call me babe. And she was like you could see her getting riled up, and every time she would get emotionally riled up he would further drop back. He would further be like okay, so she's pursuing, like hey, you're making me feel insecure. I'm out here feeling vulnerable with you, and usually you're you know that expecting the other person to kind of like comfort you or be there with you, but he just stays back there with you, but he just stays back.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 24:28
Yeah, yeah, so clever. Well, it was interesting to watch because it's she was so set up. You know, he's basically saying I have boundaries, and she responds from a place of like okay, but your boundaries seem to suggest something about your interest in me, which they did in in many ways, um, because I don't know that he would have those same boundaries with shelby. And so she. She then reacts from a point of like, oh, like I just came on this show, I was riding high, and now you burst my bubble and I'm being honest about that, and he, he doesn't have to reassure her. You know that's not necessarily his job, but of course then she's like okay, well, how do I even engage in this relationship? And then he's like you can't call me babe.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 25:11
And she, she just uses the word babe with everybody, which so many people do, like people getting on her ass about this. It's so stupid, but whatever. Then every time she says it, she gets crazier and crazier in her own head and it's like. You know he doesn't have to apologize for having boundaries, but I think so much of the time when we communicate boundaries, sometimes we or when we get upset about something. It's really something else that's under the surface and the other person's picking up on that, like I think the same thing happened with Hood and Jeremiah and the pancakes, but we'll get there. But yeah, I mean, you know, she did start behaving really ineffectively and at a certain point he shut it down. He's like let me be crystal clear with you, and that was effective. But it also left me with a sour taste in my mouth because she wasn't wrong necessarily. He picked her and then immediately pushed her away for the entire duration they were together without giving her any kind of credit for her feelings.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 26:16
I do wonder if that was a move like a strategy of like not picking Shelly right away, or just like keeping Amaya in the game for some reason. But yeah, and then you watch Amaya just like go nuts, and that you know that pursuer withdraw dynamic that we've talked about, where this is a weird scenario, because it's a scenario where he was clearly trying to reject her right.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 26:37
He wasn't into her.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 26:38
But this also happens in couples where both people actually like each other, but one person's response to conflict or disconnection is withdrawing, avoiding and staying quiet, and the other person is to pursue and push and demand Right, and so she's like what do I do, like what's going on, and so you could see her amp up and he drops back even more. Ace is a really good example of how we just kind of gone haywire with the word boundaries.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 27:07
I feel like as another one of those social media words, the pop psych words that have like spread like wildfire, like all we, I mean, I'm so guilty of it. How do we set boundaries? How do we it's okay to have boundaries Protect your peace, speak out, say it out loud. You know boundaries are healthy and they are. But I think that we lump a lot of different things into boundaries, and Ace shows this really well. Like he goes you're not respecting my boundaries. Now, his boundary was just like don't call me babe. Boundary was just like don't call me babe.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 27:42
But a boundary, like in the real definition of it, should be a guideline of what should we do in different situations, Like what do we want? Instead, here is a boundary of behaviors that I find acceptable and behaviors that I don't find acceptable. So if he should, if he should do it correctly and kindly, he should set boundaries. Like you know, I really feel uncomfortable when being called babe so early on. Do you mind calling me ace or do you mind, um, showing me you care in this other way? Or I just want to clarify when you mean babe, do you mean that you're seeing me as a boyfriend, right, like so, just giving her some guidance of what he wants instead, instead him being like I don't like it when you do. This is a really good example of how people are taking boundaries to say like it's okay if I tell you what I don't like and what you do well, I mean it is okay, but it felt like a willful misrepresentation of why she was doing that, and so it.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 28:50
It wound up feeling more controlling than anything. Don't use that word that you use very frequently with men and women. It's setting her up to fail instantly.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 29:02
Yeah, yeah. And as you're saying, like he's saying I don't want to lock down so early, I don't want to act like we're boyfriend and girlfriend and if that's what you call boyfriend and girlfriend, like I don't, I'm not comfortable with that, right, but then it should be dispelled. When she says I call everyone babe, I call my boyfriends babe, but I also call everyone else babe, he should be like yeah, okay, like it. Just. I just was. I just wanted to clarify, you know your expectations about this, about this relationship.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 29:33
I mean, it's sticky because you are allowed to not like behavior from another person, but I think saying like these are my boundaries, don't be yourself. It's just, it's difficult territory, I don't. You know, these are my boundaries, you need to speak and you need to use a different lexicon. It's like I don't know you can say I don't really like it, but I understand, that's how you talk. Just you know I have this other preference. But to say like you're breaking my boundary by using your normal word choice is a little bit suspicious.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 30:01
Okay, we should get into the, the huda, jeremiah stuff, because I don't think I do. I definitely don't think on love island you locking down and being serious with someone is necessarily a bad thing. In in all the seasons I've seen, usually there's one or two couples that met in the beginning, went strong, love each other and like, made it all the way through. That is totally an okay thing to do, but the Huda and Jeremiah situation did look weird.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 30:32
What looked weird? I mean, I have my own opinions, but what looked weird to you?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 30:37
I think at the beginning, I mean it's, I think it just had this flair of anxious attachment. I don't know what side, it looked more on Huda's side, but it looked on both sides, where they were like we're going to be here until the end, right, we're going to. You're my person, right, I'm never going to explore. I'm never going to explore. Usually there, even in the world of Love Island, there is a little bit of a pacing of we are connecting. Oh wait, let's get serious, right. There is like a couple episodes or a couple weeks where they're like enjoying each other's company and then at some point they like ask to be boyfriend and girlfriend or admit to each other they don't want to explore any other connection. But this was like week one. Phew, we found the person who wants this too. Oh, my God, let's.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 31:26
And then there was so much, especially in the beginning. There's so much testing and reassurance seeking. I mean, we talked about this. Like, what was the last episode of like anxious attachment and reassurance seeking? I was just watching it. Like, did you bring me the pancakes? Did you say this? Did you say that? Um, this just setting up tests. Is Jeremiah in this? Is he in this? You normally put your hands on me, you look upset and are not talking to me about it. This must mean that you don't love me and don't trust me. Right? It was like everything that he did that she didn't like was a sign of possible rejection. It just felt to me like a core belief, like she walked in, being like I'm afraid of being rejected and left and abandoned. So it's like I found a guy who really likes me and I'm going to make sure with every single moment that he is reassuring me that he's going nowhere.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 32:27
Yeah, I don't disagree with that necessarily. I mean, I I have some caveats to it. But I also just want to point out that Hannah also got sent home for zeroing in. So it's not just Jeremiah that got sent home and, like Huda, that's been on the chopping block Like, and then Ace was all upset when the girls sent Hannah home, but they sent her home with the same logic that he'd used to send Jeremiah home. So I just this thing keeps coming up with, like multiple people do. I think that Huda is demonstrating an anxious attachment to Jeremiah. Yes, but I also just want to throw in that I feel like part of what happened was, as soon as she told him she's a mom, he took a giant emotional step back and started looking for any reasons to not be in her anymore, and I think she picked up on that and then got anxious.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 33:19
Because as soon as she-. Give me examples, because the pancake thing thing, let's talk about the pancake thing first of all. Can you tell me exactly? I didn't actually see that part, I just saw the fallout. Can you describe to me the pancake situation?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 33:32
yeah, I mean, I thought that was mostly on her. Um, it seemed like he made her a pancake. It wasn't fully cooked, she had to redo the pancake. Some other guy helped her. He was checked out somewhere I don't know, and she was like, how could you let another man? I mean, yeah, that that sounds crazy.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 33:49
But he had started picking on her where she, the way she would talk to him, which, in fairness, was annoying to me too, but he hadn't noticed any issue with it until she said that she was a mother. She'd be like, oh, like good job, you did such a good job. And he was like it's like, it's like I'm your kid, like that specific, that specific language showed me that he likely had a big pivot in his brain and was like, oh, this is like way more intense and like, not you know, paradisy, like I was hoping, like I, this is, this is not a casual, this is not something that can necessarily go at my pace. Ending up with her means being a dad, like anybody would take a step back from that. But he acted as if he told her that he wasn't.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 34:39
But then he started noticing things and getting irritated with her, and then she started, I mean getting irritated with her. And then she started I mean, I think she's a sensitive person. She started picking up on that and at first it would be like kind of like, oh okay, but then they kept piling up and then the pancake thing happened. And at this point I think she's looking for evidence and then she's seeing oh, all these other guys are like doing sweet things for their girlfriends, but Jeremiah and I are the strongest couple and he's not doing anything for me. And she's getting anxious, right and like she's starting to blame him for shit. And then he's backing away, saying that's unfair, and then it just unravels.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 35:14
To be clear, what she is picking on is that he made a pancake and she didn't like it, and then he didn't fix it right away and someone else gave her a pancake I mean that was insane.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 35:26
yeah, like I think there's also, but we also weren't there. I mean I could kind of see every, you know, all of these people like clearly, breakfast is a ritual where the men show that they value their lady by making her a beautiful breakfast. And she gets this breakfast that has been undercooked and she's already insecure, and then, who knows, maybe he really was just kind of wandering around watching her like recook something, and another guy notices and he comes in and starts helping her and she's just kind of like what the hell? We didn't see it. In other words, what got explained was insane.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 36:05
It's interesting what you said about the mom thing. I didn't really pick up on that timeline. I have to go back and look. But I also felt this claustrophobia of like every Jeremiah just seemed to be a hardcore withdrawer, like he said several times in those high intensity moments he didn't come to comfort her when she was almost voted off. He, he, he.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 36:29
What he responds to to intense emotional situations with withdrawal and avoidance and freeze, like the guys were, you know, gave him shit for locking in or like saying that they don't, they doubt his relationship, and then he like sulks and like hangs his head like a peanuts character. And then she's like why are you, why are you like this? Like, why are you, why aren't you talking to me? And he's like I need some time to process, I need space, which is a classic withdrawer thing to say. Some people just need to like in response to intense emotions or conflict, they just go inside and they just need some space. And that's what's interesting about the show is that they don't have space. Literally, they're like showering and sleeping with the whole group. So if you are the kind of person who needs like a moment to chill, you're screwed.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 37:22
You're absolutely screwed in that world. Yeah, but you also, as the person who needs a moment to chill, you also need to sacrifice that need sometimes because Of course, if I were Huda Because you go on a dating show where there's like 78 cameras of course.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 37:35
Well, yeah, if I were Huda and, look, I also find her claustrophobic and, you know, kind of off-putting in various ways she's grown on me a little bit after the breakup. I think she handled some things well, so that's why I'm defensive of her. If I were Huda and America just tried to vote me off even though I was in a strong couple, and then I almost got I almost had to leave the island where I was falling for a guy and then that guy did not come and talk to me about it, I would be fucking livid. So I felt like that was pretty justified. Her, the way she responded was obviously ineffective, but like what a shitty thing to do. I mean, that was so humiliating for her and the whole. Like the whole the strongest connection she had there didn't come and be like I'm so sorry, your country hates you like I mean here's, here's, you're buying into the hood of core belief, of unlovable insecurity.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 38:46
So even just watching all of that and I don't know, I don't know what's real. Maybe her core beliefs are true in those moments and confirmed in those moments, I really saw that she was projecting a lot of these insecurities onto. Like of these moments like I don't know the pancake thing or whatever she's like, oh, he doesn't like me, or oh, he's a bitch and a liar, and it could be just be like, oh, he's kind of lazy, or oh, he doesn't really respond to conflict well, or anything like that. Or even the whole them getting voted like. Basically, what happened was america voted for iris, the new bombshell, to be matched up, to be recoupled with jeremiah, and huda almost got kicked off because of that right. So it was a recoupling plus and almost almost dumping.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 39:33
Now the issue, which is the death of people with anxious attachment, is that it was a the most brutal rejection you could ever get from America. That is ambiguous. So you were, she was rejected, or something terrible happened and she didn't know why. So it wasn't clear. It's still not clear to me what happened. Did people vote because they didn't like Hoda, or they didn't like jeremiah or they didn't like them together. And in that space of uncertainty she went crazy. And not only went crazy, but you could watch her turn her mind from like I'm rejected, I'm like what's going on? I'm so confused to like he's a little bitch and it's all his fault and he's the toxic one, right?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 40:23
she goes.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 40:24
That was no good, that was bad. Yeah, I mean like that, like in that space of like uncertainty, she really just like you could see that it went full-on. Like she, at some point she was like I'm putting this, I'm putting the pieces together. He sucks and I'm like, okay, but you don't know why, like you don't like maybe, maybe that's a case where I agree.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 40:47
I agree with the part where she then turned it on him and that was fucked up, but I also do think it was because america hated her just as a viewer. As a viewer, I wanted them to break up and for her to go home. You know, so it. So it's kind of like, uh, like I don't know, if that happened to me, I would find it very, very and I do not have anxious attachment I would find it very, very difficult to come to any other kind of conclusion.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 41:12
Yeah, I think I mean as a human being in that in the Coliseum of love. I don't blame her for going nuts, right. However, it really was interesting when you watch her go. She really seems to walk in with a belief that men won't show up for you and they're going to leave you. Because she locks in with Jeremiah instead of enjoying it and relaxing and maybe just kind of feeling him out.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 41:43
Maybe he has some qualities that she's not into. Like he doesn't make her pancakes in the way that she, whatever she's like do you like me? Do you like me? Why aren't you talking to me like this? Why aren't you talking to me? And then, as soon as she gets the rejection, her mind comes completely like well, see, he's a bitch and I need to leave him and he's a toxic one. So it's. It's like she just comes in with this hugely negative core belief of how relationships are going to go, instead of being like I don't know why america voted this way and it's driving me insane and I'll never know the answer but like clearly our dynamic is toxic. Right, this is more the case of what happens with couples is like the combination of people creates powder kegs like the like their dynamic was toxic. Whatever was going on, they, they were contributing to what was going on.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 42:37
Yes, but she's the one that almost got kicked off and he didn't, so it felt more personal to her. Whatever, she clearly handled it terribly. But I'm just saying the fact that he didn't come and comfort her, that was a bitch move, like that was unacceptable. And then her response was also unacceptable.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 42:53
So at that point you're like, oh, thank god they're breaking up like this is oh, if anything he was, whether he was angling for the win or not, like maybe he was in it for the wrong reasons and maybe that's maybe the locking in too early is their code for in it for the wrong reasons. But I mean, if anything, jeremiah is very impressionable. I mean, you know like she's like, you know like you're going to be my boyfriend.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 43:21
He was like okay, I'm your boyfriend. And then the guys were like I think your relationship is weird. And he's just there, like you know, and then just like anyone says something strong to him and he's like totally thrown off. So yeah, he might have not had the initiative and the confidence that she was looking for. But you know like he just seemed like a little bit of a you know wuss, like yeah, manipulate oh wow.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 43:55
So here we are at Hood.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 43:56
Aside, I wouldn't say Hood Aside. I would say that her coming in with this intense, and maybe it's because of the mom thing, maybe it's because she she must have experienced shit loads of rejection.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 44:10
Yeah, she came in, like I mean, in other shows and reality shows that we've seen, people with kids have come in saying that I mean they might wait, but they're usually kind of excited and like saying I can't wait to share this with you. But she was very clearly like I don't want to tell people. I'm going to tell people secretly, one by one, and you know, because I'm afraid of getting rejected.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 44:31
So maybe, maybe when she opened up that door like she was on my dollars and securities. Yeah, she was on Love Island. I mean, I just think it is different to tell somebody on a show where the median age is 23. And they're there to do twerking competitions, that you're a mom versus married at first sight, right, or the Bachelor or whatever, which is all about commitment, so, but yeah, I mean, look, I mean she's. She's clearly insecure.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 44:58
What I do think was valiant, though, was that, after she almost truly got sent home but they sent Jaden home instead Taylor and Alandria were like you've got to stop talking about this, and she did two things that I thought were admirable. One is that she did not stop talking about it right away. Instead, she went and had a closure conversation with Jeremiah, which I think she handled okay, and I think that was a good idea. And two, she actually then did stop talking about it. I would not have been able to stop talking about it, I think, 24 hours after almost getting voted off, and the guy that I was just quote unquote seriously dating I mean in this, you know realm like, like stood behind jaden, like wanted me to get voted off, like, and I it was once again humiliated by america, like I would not be able to shut the fuck up about that for like at least a week. And she, she shut the fuck up, okay, fuck fair, okay, fair.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 46:03
In the Love Island world things move very fast and actually they seem to be more persistent and obsessive than typical. But it's maybe the way it's cut. It's so quick turnaround that you don't have a lot of unless you're like really into that person and want to. You know like date around so you could actually get back to that original couple. You don't have a lot of time to ruminate over that person. She was aware that america and her friends were sick and tired of this drama, so she knew, either from like emotionally or you know from the strategy of the game, that if she kept going on this no one's gonna like she will get voted off. Yeah, and people are being thrown in all the time. You gotta like lick your wounds and get back on the dating like you know, the next morning.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 46:59
I understand that. But she was passionate enough to march up and down the length of the villa screaming you're a bitch, for like 20 straight minutes. Okay, like she cared, this bitch cared I.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 47:12
When I was now, granted, I was 18, but that's not that much younger than Huda when I was a Rotary exchange student, I went on a trip to Greece and Italy with the other exchange students and I met a guy named Kike. He was Mexican and I gave him my first blowjob and we were a couple all through the Greece part of the trip, okay, and then I have no idea why, he switched to Bruna, the Brazilian, and and it was humiliating, and I cried. Well, no, I tried to put on brave face, but I did cry a little bit. When we went to Pompeii, I guess I did put on a pretty brave face. But the point is, when you are dumped and rejected in a humiliating fashion and then you then have to go and watch that person make new connections and hang around right across from you, I would, at the very least, be hiding under the covers like, I think, she. I just think it was a valiant effort.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 48:16
I think it was impressive I mean it's valiant to go on the show. I mean it takes guts to literally wear a bikini in front of america for like eight weeks straight and desperately try to get someone to like you. I mean. I mean the bikinis leave nothing to the imagination. I mean, at this point it seems that culture has our society has said all we need to do is cover the top of your ass, crack and and and and. You know we're, we don't need that. You know privacy bar on tv, like you can. It's fine to show the whole butt anyway, the whole butt I it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 48:58
I don't know if it's because I watched so much love island or because it's, I don't know. There's something I have obsessive dreams about summer camp. Have I told you about this? Literally every dream I have is some sort of summer camp kind of feeling, where we're in a resort or we're in a literally a summer camp by the lake, or there's just some idea of like a self-contained ecosystem of a group of people and usually, as is pretty typical of my messed up psyche, I'm like it's the end of the trip. I'm so scared to lose everything. But yet I have a task and it's an impossible task and I have to run through the hallways or the rooms or the people to try to solve that task, and I can never do it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 49:48
Well, that sounds like a lot of psyche and I know that it's something about like either I have to get on a train or a plane to get out of there or I'll never get to come back. There's something about the ending of it that feels so threatening, and maybe it's because that in our society we grow up literally going to summer camp, going to school, going to college, going to grad school and then adulthood is just nothing Like. You don't have any of this self contained social world ever again. I mean, especially with remote working, you go from being in a pod like on a love Island kind of world to like being literally by yourself. I mean, this podcast is probably the most like dedicated social interaction I have, except for with my family, can.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 50:43
I tell you about my dream last night.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 50:45
Yeah, okay, it was also. It was also in a little bit not summer camp, but it was like an old school university like oxford. Anyway, that's not really that relevant to the story. What is relevant is um jason's wife came back from the dead and he had to choose between us what did he choose in your dream?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 51:06
I woke up before it happened, but what I do remember. So, first of all, actually, apparently, she had come and knocked on my door and my roommate had told her that I wasn't home, even though I was, so that was. I don't know what that was about, but then I walked in on them cuddling and I had. I was like, oh God, I guess I should give you guys privacy, my fiance, I guess I should give you guys privacy. So I like left for a while and then he called, like a mutual friend of ours and who doesn't exist.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 51:32
It was a dream friend and, um, he was like doing pros and cons and he was like well, one thing is that you know, heidi has more money, so her style is more sophisticated, which is definitely not true. I have great style. Um, and then at one point I know I was considering throwing in the towel and just being like I can't, I can't compete with someone who has come back from the dead for you. So you know she's your original wife. So I don't think I actually got to. I think I woke up first, but isn't that terrible. Then I texted Jason about it and you know what he didn't say. He didn say don't worry. Of course I would choose you over my dead wife, the ace move.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 52:12
Instead did he thank you for sharing.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 52:14
He said you and your dreams baby. And then he said I'm glad you gave me friends in your dreams, something like that, because he doesn't have any friends in real life. It's like I like that I have friends in your dream.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 52:27
They'll be like, but uh yeah, sweet jason, you have the best fiancee. Um see, love island creeps into our dreams. Yeah, and the the, the idea of having to like the social norms around, having to pretend that you have to be cool with the guy that you're coupled up with, like, like exploring other options and you know, beautiful cushioned areas, yeah, right, next to you, I mean, it's so interesting.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 52:59
Yeah, I mean, yeah, actually that's pretty. Yeah, that's kind of direct Gosh.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 53:03
Yeah. And then the social, like normal life. If you saw your well normal life, when you see your husband, you know, or your fiance cuddling with his dead ex-wife, you'd be like, oh my God, like there's a miracle on earth. But then you would also be like, what, how could you do this? But in Love Island world, you got to be cool with it. You got to be like, yeah, I just see the guy that I was just making out with hitting on someone else.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 53:30
Maybe that was why I conjured his act, because actually if I saw him cuddling with heidi, there would be a big part of me that's like oh you got here first, so I guess you get to cuddle my fiancee, and I would feel insecure. I'd be like do you want her instead? How did that make you feel? That made me feel bad, kibbe.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 53:54
That's as far as we got in terms of learning how to deal with dreams. How does it make you feel and remember that everyone in a dream is actually you, right?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 54:06
I do have to compete with a ghost in some ways. I mean, he doesn't make me feel that way, but that's what it means to marry a widower. Anyway, we were talking about the show. Do we have anybody else to psychoanalyze? Well, andrea's cool, shelly's cool. I said that at the beginning.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 54:25
I do think that the show has an exceptional number of people who demonstrate like really good communication skills, like there's a moment it's so small. Huda yeah, I think it's Huda, of course was upset about something Because she misinterpreted Alendra's. You know, I don't know.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 54:49
She said yeah. She said don't know. She said yeah, she says, she said we're gonna.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 54:51
We're gonna talk about this later or something. And huda was like oh my god, I'm being rejected as per the core belief, right that she's projecting all over the place. And alandria sat her down, was like oh, I'm so sorry, I totally see why you would think that I. I meant you know like that you were in trouble or that I'm upset with you, but I just meant we're going to have a girl chat later, I apologize. And I was like, wow, I got to like I'm going to try to record that, yeah.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 55:18
Yeah, like Shelly and Alandria, particularly, are just like masters of being open and connecting but honest. Honest and being like, yeah, I'm into this person, I'm into that person. Like I value both of you so you know, they just are really able to navigate, just like I think they would be amazing in a polyamorous relationship, just like they're both so beautiful too. I mean, oh, my god I God, I mean what is going on.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 55:49
I do think Alandria looks almost exactly like a praying mantis. That's not a bad thing, but just think about it.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 55:55
That doesn't sound like a good thing.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 55:58
People look like animals all the time it's. It's partly the way she carries herself. She's very like calm and her posture is extremely erect, and the way she moves her arms is also very much like a praying mantis would.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 56:14
That's true. That's a really good yeah. Yeah, okay, all right. Alandria is a emotionally intelligent praying mantis.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 56:20
Jeremiah's a little bitch jeremiah's a little bitch who does who hurt her?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 56:26
you know, like who hurt that woman.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 56:28
Probably the father of her child. Yeah that's probably true. It was heartwarming to know that he's still in the picture, though. Oh is he? Oh, that's right. Yeah, who else is on the show? Austin is. Oh, I have to just I just have to really applaud Austin here. Austin has cheated on six people and nobody is worried about that.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 56:54
I mean Austin seems kind and fun and chill, but this man slept with like hundreds of people and sent a thousand nudes and he's a pool boy. I mean this guy is, and this guy's working it.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 57:10
You know he cheated on six people, that is so many people to cheat on him, and nope, everybody was like oh, but then they never brought it up again. They never were like, oh, new women who come in, just so. You know, this guy has cheated on six different people, or maybe he cheated six times on the same woman. I don't know.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 57:32
I feel like that's less shocking than sending a thousand nudes a thousand. Probably exaggerated that, but maybe why would you bump on that number? But he's just someone assuming. He seems like. He seems like innocent and kind and good-natured and it just flies by your radar that like oh, he's actually like a pretty big player yeah, totally and but it's a nobody.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 57:58
Yeah, nobody comments on like that I. That has been stuck in my head forever. That is amazing. Amazing that you can present as the exact opposite of how you actually must treat women in order to send a thousand dick pics and cheat on six of them. That is like really significant um, nick is. Nick is kind of. He has more personality than I originally thought he did. It's kind of coming out. He seems like he has a sense of humor.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 58:27
Sierra seems pretty mature and cool nick is definitely the one that I'd go for, because he everyone goes for him. He's the cute, he's a cute, funny, accessible guy um yeah, I would go for him.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 58:38
When I was 22 I would go for pepe. Now I mean, I would go for none of them now, but you know, but yes pepe, definitely.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 58:44
I was surprised. He seems a very like, respectful and stoic and got a good head on his shoulders. He's the one that I wouldn't date at first, but I'd be like I probably should.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 58:55
Yeah, I probably should. I would totally date him at first.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 58:58
He's a responsible pick.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 59:00
It's so weird because I always date people who are super animated, but I've always been drawn to the Matt Damon's of the world who are much more laid back. But I just never date them for whatever reason. Maybe they're not into me, I don't know. But pepe, you know? Um, I also thought one interaction I thought was hysterical was hannah. When hannah got really mad at charlie for like, oh yeah, talking to some other girl, but then, as he's working it through with her, she starts laughing because she realizes she's being crazy and then he just goes you're, you're a psycho, you know that and she just continued laughing.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 59:36
It was such a perfect comment because she was being psycho, but in an endearing like way where she picked it up herself and she was able to be like yeah, I'm just being insecure and getting mad at you because of my own feelings I mean it's a crazy world.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 59:52
But yeah, I mean, if this was right after she climbed into a to pepe's lap and made out with him, I mean, like the. The interesting thing about this show, too, is like the use of jealousy. Right, because it's because there's not as much of like a monogamy is like, is it is? It's like a weird, like polyamorous, like non-exclusive world where you can be jealous, but that's almost like your signal that you, you actually like this person.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:00:22
I know, I think that's so toxic. I mean, it's it, it's true to some extent, but I just think that we, we aim for a world where we can tell we like somebody before we fear losing them from another, by another person.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:00:39
But, yeah, but if you think about it like it's, it's like a really accelerated version of life where it's like are you going to lock in and settle, knowing that they're going to throw bombshells? For the rest, like you're going to get picks that are going to increase in quality, like they're they're throwing in the top, top tier contestants later on. Right, like they get hotter and hotter. You're like, oh my God, oh my god, iris, like, like, are you a person like what is going on here?
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:01:10
it's like interesting but they're intense, they intentionally like tempt them away so it's really like a game of um okay, am I gonna put all my chips in this one, or am I gonna stay open? And if I stay open, I might risk this, this connection that might actually take me to the end.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:01:31
So and then also the challenges where they all are like have to make out with each other in the most revolting ways. By the way. Yeah, I mean, this is another way. The show has like flipped culture on its head. They say things like there wasn't nearly enough tongue since when has like tonguing? Since when has like tonguing come into popularity?
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:01:51
every lesson I've learned about kissing tongues out. I mean, it's, you know, like a little bit little hint, little tease, you know but they seem to be aware that the camera is looking and they are gonna.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02:01
They go a tongue first, you know there was.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:02:03
I got a clip of Huda and I put it on Instagram, where she literally goes like this like before their lips meet for the first time, her tongue is 100 out. Yeah, and I'm not picking on huda, they're all doing that shit. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen, maybe they're being coached by producers.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02:22
They're like, we like this.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:02:24
Yeah, you know passion get memes about you, just stick your tongue out.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02:26
One more thing I'll say about the dynamic that I find interesting, and maybe I don't know if this. Yeah, you know Passion memes. If you want to get memes about you, stick your tongue out. One more thing I'll say about the dynamic that I find interesting, and maybe I don't know if this is a gendered thing, but how tricky it is for people to get group support and validation around your conflict with others, around your conflict with others.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:02:54
I was watching how Jeremiah and Huda, you know, do their thing, and the men are way more likely to be honest in different directions. They're going to be like we love you, man. I think this is weird. I think that you guys like especially Ace, you guys are being like toxic. This is like a bad sign. You weren't right when you didn't go up and comfort her. However, I love you, right. And the women the entire time, whoever it is, they're like yeah, you're right, the other one is toxic. That's what women do, though you know. Yeah, you're just a queen. You got to make sure they treat you like a queen and nothing less, and I'm like can we call out some of our girlfriends for bad behavior? I mean, that is, that is what we do.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:03:38
I know it is what we do. I mean I well, I have a reputation of being a devil's advocate because I don't necessarily do that, but then it makes people mad at me and call me a devil's advocate in a bad way.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:03:52
So why is that? Is it like? Is that a girl thing? Is that there, there should? There's like a girl code of, like you know, for your girlfriend to say yeah, you're not the crazy one, she's the crazy one, yeah.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:04:05
I mean well. I was just side with you, my mom about my sister and she defended my sister and I was like how dare you.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:04:17
So I wonder if it is a gender thing, like I wonder if there's an expectation where girls like support each other and I do, I, I I wonder. If it's now that I'm thinking about it, I was like, why do I expect? Why do I react that way? I feel like girls maybe, or maybe me. I'm more quick to doubt myself on a regular basis.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:04:40
And so.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:04:41
I'm more hard on myself, right? Most of my thoughts are like oh, I'm wrong, I'm dumb, I did this wrong. And then when I get in an argument or get into like I'm upset'm dumb, I did this wrong. And then when I get an argument or get into like I'm upset, I go to you to get a little bit of encouragement or a little bit of like support.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:04:57
I don't know if that's a case in all girlfriend relationships or men relationships, but I wonder if that's why girls like maybe, like if you were, if you call, if I'm, if you're calling me out on my shit, I'm like. I know that already. I already have thoughts about how I'm wrong, right, yeah? So shut up, don't tell me I'm wrong, tell me that it's all the other person's fault.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:05:22
That was not, in fact, how I felt with my mother. I think my sister was completely wrong. But yeah, I know, I I feel that way too. I think that, yeah, women are very quick to I mean, yeah, most maybe mature women are, I don't know, aren't very quick to blame themselves. And well, I do think that women look for validation more often than maybe men do, at least validation in the, in the form of feedback from friends interesting well, well, should we uh go watch some love island and I don't know if there's any tips, but I think the tips are be like
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:06:05
not really. I mean, the tips are like yeah, like do whatever Alandria does, yeah, to take care of her looks and also communicate and connect to people. Don't do what Huda does. And then let's figure out what's going on with Ace. We really want to hear all of your opinions about this. So if you want to click on the button that says like send us a text it's annoying that feature, we can't actually respond. So if you actually want to talk to us, like give us your email address so we could respond, Leave a comment with your email address.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:06:38
Some people have just left their email address and we don't know what we're emailing. So comment plus your email address, and then we can respond.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:06:46
Yeah. And then July 14th, opening up the community and the skills group. So if you want to be able to, you know, have a safe space where we can talk about this stuff and talk about your loved ones with mental illness or addiction and just help you learn all these skills that we talk about, like communication, setting boundaries maybe in a nicer way than ACE becoming Alandria and the way she is honest and open, but also like very confident, self-possessed. We will learn together.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:07:16
Yeah, I think Ace is like Littlefinger, but with more romantic pizzazz. But he's like cunning, he's cunning and clever. Littlefinger happened to be my favorite.
Dr. Kibby McMahon: 1:07:26
Send us your hypotheses and guesses about ACE. We would love to hear your thoughts.
Dr. Jacqueline Trumbull: 1:07:34
Okay, well, we love you all very much and we'll see you next week. By accessing this podcast, I acknowledge that the hosts of this podcast make no warranty, guarantee or representation as to the accuracy or sufficiency of the information featured in this podcast. The information, opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. This podcast and any and all content or services available on or through this podcast are provided for general, non-commercial informational purposes only and do not constitute the practice of medical or any other professional judgment, advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be considered or used as a substitute for the independent professional judgment, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a duly licensed and qualified health care provider. In case of a medical emergency, you should immediately call 9-1-1. The hosts do not recommend or certify any information, product, process, service or organization presented or mentioned in this podcast, and information from this podcast should not be referenced in any way to imply such approval or endorsement.
